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 Post subject: Substitute for Weld-On
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:20 am 
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Mahogany
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Stew-Mac and LMI sell Weld-On adhesives (either 4784 or 16) as a binding cement.
I've noticed that the big-box home improvement stores sell several Oatey cements for PVC pipe. The Material Safety Data Sheets for the Oatey products show some of the same chemical components as the Weld-On products. The Oatey stuff is a lot cheaper than the Weld-On adhesives. Has anyone tried using Oatey products for bindings?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:36 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I switched from Weld-On to LMI's FCA binding adhesive a few years ago and like it a lot. I put it in a syringe with an 18G needle and can lay it in the channel a few inches at a time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Mahogany
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I noticed the same thing and tried gluing a scrap piece of binding to some wood with Oatey cement. Pealed right off. I finally deduced, the Oatey cement is a plastics solvent and not a glue. It works by chemically melting 2 pieces of plastic then when the solvent flashes off, the plastic re-solidifies as one piece. Works great for sticking PVC pipes together, not so much for plastic to wood.

The answer is "Family Dollar Store" (emphasis on "Family"). Duco cement works perfectly on binding and it's just $1.25 per tube. I have cleaned out their inventory a couple of times.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:51 pm 
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I been using Duco since back in the 70's. Good stuff.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:56 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I am a duco guy

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:54 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I have used Duco on all the plastic bindings and in 11 years it all held. I agree weld on may be better but if you have a good technique Duco will work.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:40 am 
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Todd Stock wrote:
For ivoroid and other cellulose nitrate based binding, Duco works fine - it's cellulose nitrate based, with acetone added, so essentially the same stuff as the binding, but in dilute form.

For ABS/Bolteron and vinyl, something with a combination of solvents such as Weld-On does a better job - Weld-On 16 uses a combination of methylene chloride, trichloroethane, and methyl methacrylate, so covers the bases on these plastics. FCA is similar, but a little easier to use. Not a fan of Duco for ABS, but it seems to hold. That said, I've reglued a lot of ABS and vinyl bindings on 60's-'80's Martins, and whatever they were using, I wish they'd have used something better.

Another solution for wood purfs and ivoroid/tortoise binding is Titebond or LMI White and acetone...as long as the ivoroid or tortoise is primed with acetone, the Titebond or LMI holds everything together. Does not work on ABS and vinyl, as acetone is not a good solvent for these plastics.

For the last few years, I've been using the LMI FCA if forced to work with plastic binding - great stuff, and holds rosewoods like coco as well as it does ABS. Expensive stuff, though.


Very informative. Thanks, Todd.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Mahogany
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Thanks for all the advice. I hit the local 'Family Dollar' and picked up 5 tubes of Duco.
As a test, I glued three strips of .08 ABS binding to a piece of wood leaving some of each strip hanging off the edge of the wood. One strip with Duco, one with 16 Weld-On and one with 4784 Weld-On. 36 hours later I pulled them off. All three seemed equally hard to remove but the strip glued with Duco actually pulled off a bit of the wood. Looks like it's Duco from now on.

TripodBob


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Quote:
I finally deduced, the Oatey cement is a plastics solvent and not a glue. It works by chemically melting 2 pieces of plastic then when the solvent flashes off, the plastic re-solidifies as one piece.

That is exactly what Duco does when gluing celluloid.

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