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Can anyone tell me what the shelf life of dry granular hide glue is? Is there significant loss of strength if it is several years old? Also, would there be any benefit of using distilled water over tap water?

Thanks, Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

It will last indefinitely stored in a cool, dry place. I don't think it cares about water. Some folks add a little urine to extend open time.

Thanks Mark - I think I'll learn to work faster instead of using the pee method!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Funny recipe, but for the sake of correctness, it is urea not mere pee that can be added (about 10%) to extend open time. Pee has only a small concentration.

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Build log

Good plan. Warm shop, warm workpieces, all yer Ducks in a row. I make a 1/4 of a small babyfood jar at a time and toss any leftovers.

That's one of the most wonderful things about hide glue. In granulated form, it's just the same as when it's dry and holding wood together. Expect your guitar to last 100 years? Expect the granulated hide glue to last 100 years as well Just don't burn it, and don't let it get eaten by mold/bacteria (as can happen when it's wet) or by rats, as I once heard that they love it even in dry form.

There was also a thread recently where someone mentioned that adding a bit of salt will extend the open time as well. I need to give it a try and see how well it works.

Not something I would want to do either as it will probably smell awful. I have edited my post with a smiley to reflect my tongue in cheek remark. It is historically accurate however and was a common practice in early Cabinet Shops here. After a day or so the Urea concentration will increase in a large glue pot kept hot 12 hours/day with urine used as the diluent. Concentrated Urine was a significant commodity item prior to the development of modern Nitrogen production processes. It was (and still is in undeveloped areas) used in hide tanning .

Mark
(as a matter of fact, I do have a pot to pee in )

Puah In such case one can also use cheap bone glue instead of hide for the ultimate stench....

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Build log

I use Old Brown Glue for gluing my tops and backs on - it's just hide glue with a small percentage of urea mixed in. Gives plenty of open time, with only a small sacrifice in strength.

No difference in smell...

-Mark

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I have been using distilled water with hide glue. For the price of gallon of distilled water, I figure it can't hurt. Of course, I am also leaving a couple of small squeeze bottles of mixed hide glue in the refer and have used it up to six months later, with no noticeable problems.

Mark

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A world without music would Bb.

In ancient Rome, urine was collected and used for washing clothes, and it would keep the colours from fading. I still have a preference for Sunlight, myself.
I think I'll use the distilled water. I always have a jug of it in my shop for grain-raising and thinning water based finishes.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

i hope i´m not sending this fine thread down the drain, but i believe they also used urine to wash their teeth . actually, i was told iberian urine was the preferred one.

sorry for silliness,
miguel

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Here in Australia us blokes still use it to wash stainless steel......it must be 'very' fresh though.

Cheers

Kim

My experience with Old Brown Glue was not very good. I did a test with it, and, when dry, it is like rubber. It will bend and flex, unlike dried HHG, which breaks like glass. The next hardest drying glues are Fish Glue and LMI White. I know OBG says they only add a small amount of urea, but it's enough to alter the hardness of the glue.

As to strength, overall, any glue you pick up, pretty much, is strong enough.

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Waddy

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If you keep your HHG granules in a dark and dry place, they will last a little less than forever. Once made into actual glue it will still last a long time if you close your container and store in the fridge when not using. I do, and I have yet to see or smell a batch turned mouldy.
There is no need to use distilled water, unless you know your tap water is contaminated.

I mix 1:1 with Franklin liquid hide glue when I want more open time, it takes longer to cure, but dries as hard as HHG alone.

Before the invention of soap (a mix of lye and fat), it is true that in antiquity human urine was collected and used to wash fabrics, it was amply rinsed and left to dry in the sun. Nobody objected, it was organic, right? Olive oil and scrapers were used to clean bodies before bathing, public baths and toilets were numerous in ancient Roman cities.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

When I was a kid, my Mother made lye soap. There was no lack of fat as we had a restaurant and lived in the back. We used it for clothes and hand washing. I sometimes miss the old days!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I sometimes miss the stainless steel

hi,

where is difference between hide glue and skin glue , rabbit glue , bone glue
all use same technique to apply but...

best

not an expert on the topic, by far, but i´d say from the top of my head:

rabbit and hide glues are all skin glues: while rabbit glue is made from - you´ve guessed - rabbit skin, hide glue, traditionally, is obtained from cow hides. pig hides are the source for the high clarity hide glue, IIRC. what makes all these animal glues work is the collagen present in the skin and its connective tissue. bone glue is obtained from the collagen present in bones. also, IIRC, hide glue comes in a variety of gram strengths, while bone glue tends to fall on hide´s lower spectrum. i´ve never used rabbit glue, but i´ve red somewhere (dick tools website, IIRC) that it´s more elastic when dry than hide. from what i remember it´s more used in ancient book restoring and painting.

maybe someone can chime in and give further info on this.

cheers,
Miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I can't be sure urine is such a good thing... It contains ammonia as well which I am not sure if it will affect the glue in a negative way. By the way, urea by itself has no discernible odor, however when urea is left in a wet environment for too long some of it may turn into ammonia.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
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Laurent, on my historic instrument restoration I actually use hide glue from the museum stores that appears to have come into the store in the late 19th century, so is certainly well over 100 years old. It's not the greatest in terms of clarity, but is the same as used on most of the instruments I'm working on, and produces joints every bit as good as any modern HHG will do. I think that in a 100years time, whoever is doing the restoration will still be using this old glue with no problem.

Colin

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