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What amount of snipe might one expect with this machine? What would be the smallest sized piece of wood that can pass safely through this machine? Any glaring issues or things to watch out for on a new or used Jet 10-20? And has anyone ever seen this machine re-branded as something besides Jet or Performax?

zero snipe (if it sniped it would be useless)
never seen it as anything other than Jet or Performax
Used I would want to run it to make sure the drum ran smoothly as well as feed belt. New I would figure if any problems showed up in the first few weeks I could always send it back.
I have sanded pieces as short as 2" but can't say that would be a safe thing to do on a regular basis

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http://goatrockukulele.com

I hate mine. I have to reset the feed belt every 10 minutes. No amount of adjusting seems to help. Runnig a board through multiple times before adjusting the thickness seems to work best. If I don't do this, the back or side thickness becomes very uneven. I use a feeder board covered with 80 grit paper to feed thin pieces through. I also have settled on 80 grit for the sanding belt. I have accepted all the problems and learned to work with the tool. It is a lot better than trying to plane to thickness (for me anyway).
Michael

re: feed belt wandering

The rubber drive roller can wear out, especially if it has too much tension on it, and it will loose it's crown (it's crowned slightly in the middle, which encourages the belt to track straight, just like the crown on a band saw wheel). I had a bad roller too. Once I got a new one on there, everything tracked much better. I still adjust it but maybe just a small tweak once every hour of machine time. May not be your problem but you can pop off the conveyor and measure/examine the roller to see if it's FUBAR.

The thing with the thickness I found is that there's a lot of backlash in the height mechanism. When lowering the drum, I always lower it past where I want it, and then turn the wheel back the other way to take up the slack and lift the head to where I want, sort of like what a lot of us do when tuning a guitar string. There's a little flex in the whole system so it will still take more if you pass a board through multiple time, but I found that doing it like this at least gives me a consistent thickness every time I pass it through. Maybe you're doing that already but I thought I'd mention it.

I have a love/hate relationship with mine too. I love it when it's working, but when it needs tweaking, I HATE it. Currently, I love it. We'll see what it's like next week.

+1 (on everything including the breaker popping - and Todd's advice on how to manage it)

Ditto on what Todd said...if mine broke tomorrow I'd stay out of my shop until the new one arrived...I had the Grizzly 24" dual drum sander in the furniture days, then went to the 16-32" and finally the 10-20" which is perfect for what I do in the guitar shop...I guess I'm a lucky one with this tool...like Todd, set it up out of the box and haven't touched it since...

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Snipe? Maybe you should provide a picture of what you are calling snipe.

Mike

Well, I can describe it adequately. When snipe occurs on a thickness planer, the initial cut is a bit deeper than the rest of the board, so snipe is a basically an inaccuracy of cutting depth that is limited to the very beginning of a plank being fed into a machine.

I might have thought that sanders with automatic feed might also be susceptible to snipe, but I trust the replies indicating a negative on the sander snipe.

From my scouting, I had a feeling that the 10-20 was a nice machine. Glad to see it is well regarded. I know there were a few comments otherwise, but I'm an incessant machine tweaker anyway, so I would only have real concern about inherent design flaws.

I appreciate all the replies.

The only way sniping can occur with a thickness sander is if the material moves vertically with respect to the platen. This can happen as the piece enters the machine and only one holddown bar is pressing on the work piece (and something like you torques the piece up or down). But once it is under both bars, this is less likely unless one presses up or down with noticable force. Or, it is a long piece, and the lever arm action of the piece does the tilting for you. The bars are not incredibly forceful. The only other case I can think of is sanding a piece too thin in which case the material can flex between the bars. Less than 0.01", support the piece with a back board and double sided tape.

In a planer, sniping occurs when the blades pull the board up.

So, what might it be?

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply and observations. A thickness sander is one of the few machines I have not owned. Oh sure, I have one that is three inches wide, which I drive with my drill press and a flex cable, but it hardly counts, hence my naive questions : -)

I am still a bit puzzled by your line of inquiry though. I merely used the word snipe in the general sense, to describe any inaccuracy at the start of a process for thicknessing material, irrespective of the actual cause. I surmised (perhaps incorrectly) that such sanders were similarly susceptible to snipe. If the word does not apply, or is unsatisfactory for describing a potential inaccuracy at the start of a thickness sanding pass, I'm fine with that. Heck, I like inventing or appropriating new terminology, so perhaps "sanding" snipe should more properly be called snape, to distinguish it from its conradictory cousin ; -)

If you don't understand the cause, then you are unlikely to predict the occurrence.
Sanders force the wood against the platen, while planers can lift the wood off the platen (as Mike indicated). Snipe is most likely to occur when the wood is thin, or when the weight of a long piece overcomes the force of the pressure rollers or bars.
Sanders generally don't require high spring rates on the pressure rollers, because the sanding action creates a lot of downforce.
Planers are a lot more efficient, removing more material with less horsepower. But the tradeoff is the tendency to chip when the grain direction is not ideal, and sniping of the ends. Generally, the length of the snipe is limited to the distance between the pressure rollers.
I have found that when planing thin wood, pulling up slightly on the free end (both on infeed and outfeed) can reduce or eliminate sniping.

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John

The wandering is unavoidable with a new conveyor belt as it stretches, but it shouldn't take very long to settle. You have to use the 2 magnetised and grooved plastic guides on each underside of the belt: they greatly help in stabilising the setting.
As for discrepancies in thickness, or snipe if I understand correctly, the common mistake is to use a thickness sander like a planer and want to take off too much material at once. Light passes work best, and successive passes with the same setting to equalise everything and remove 1/2 thou at a time.
If you want to remove a lot of material in a hurry, the 24 and 36 grit rolls work very well. Don't expect to be able to remove more than 10 thou at a time.
The shortest, safest possible piece is probably around 4", and it helps to place them diagonally. Actually it helps to pass everything diagonally, except for the last few passes, as you make use of maximum drum width.
Well set-up the 10-20 is excellent and very precise. Ah yes, efficient dust collection helps greatly in cooling the machine and extends sandpaper life.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I absolutely love mine. I'd been building guitars for 15 years before I got one and I could kick my self in the arse every time I use if for not having gotten one sooner. You can get boards down paper thin for double top guitars with no worries. One tip I would say is run the boards through 2 or 3 times before setting the height lower, it tends to still sand away material even though you have made an initial pass.

Now we are getting somewhere. Yes, that can happen. And I sort of commented on that above. This is where experience with the machine will help you eliminate this (or big infeed and outfeed tables). After a while, you will get a sense of how to support the board as it enters the sander. Any tilt (on entry or exit) will cause the sander to gouge the piece. Another source of gouging can appear when trying to take too heavy of a pass, and this can happen anywhere along the length.

Snipe is a term more appropriate for planers since it involves the blade lifting the work piece up. Tear out can happen in planers and jointers and usually is a grain orientation issue.

I really wish I had not sold my 10-20 (to buy the 22-44). I love my 22-44, but would love to have the 10-20 as well. Whaa.

Mike

Ditto on the above advice, run things through several times, etc. The manual for the sander (at least my 16/32) actually specifically addresses snipe as a misadjustment of the pressure rollers, and explains what to do to adjust them and eliminate it. It works, but has has been previously said, these things are great, but they do usually take some tweaking to get them set up just right. Once you do, though, they are great.

Love my 10-20 and use it for finish sanding while the Delta 18-36 is loaded with coarse grit for roughing.
Getting the belt to track straight on either machine was an initial test of patience.
Just keep tweaking the adjustment in very small increments and eventually it will stay tracking straight.
The exception, as mentioned above, is a bad belt.

I don't own one of these, I use a commercial door sanding machine at a local cabinet shop. But I like the idea of one. I would have thought any sander narrower than the piece you are trying to sand (ie: a guitar top) would be a pain in the butt, leaving ridges??

Thanks Todd.

So what are the advantages of these over the 22-44? Cost?

Here's a cheap one on Craigslist. Looks like it might be Pre-war.
http://burlington.craigslist.org/tls/2374417245.html

If you are talking about the 10-20, cost is one thing, foot print is another, weight could be a factor. But the simple fact is, you can build just about any guitar with the 10-20. Even the harp guitar! But, if you engage in other activities (like furniture), the 10-20 can limit you. Plus, I like passing a whole harp top through the sander. No flipping required.

If you are thinking about getting something bigger, wait until you have used the 10-20 for a while to see if it really limits you in any way.

Mike

FWIW, I recommend the Performax (Jet) 10/20. I have one that I bought 6 or 7 years ago and I have been very happy with it, I also have a Delta 18/36. I use the Jet for most of the prep work before the tops and backs are joined then I wind up with the delta for the final surfacing and such things as bringing rosettes down to the top surface.

You can easily avoid snipe with both of these machines if you are careful with your technique. If not, they will give you snipe every time. What I do to avoid snipe is to lift the trailing edge of the wood as I am feeding it in and keep it from drooping until the exit roller has picked up the piece. It is a good practice to keep your hands on the wood, since you often have to help the piece past the second roller or wind up with a divot should it stall.

Also, you should carefully hold the piece on the way out, especially as it leaves the 1st holddown roller, otherwise it can droop and snipe the trailing edge of the piece. If I were to criticize the 10/20, I would like for the holddown rollers be stronger - more like the delta. But that's all. Otherwise it is a great, dependable sander.

All machines of this type work best with small bites as you sand the pieces or they will bog down and.or burn your abrasives and that's not a good thing.

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I spent most of my money on women, guitars and whiskey, the rest I wasted.

Again, thanks for all the comprehensive and helpful replies. I have settled on the Jet 10-20. It's the right machine for me, on all counts. Though I am annoyed at having to order it from the U.S., I did find a decent online dealer that will get it here for $999, all in. That's $699 base price and $300 for delivery, brokerage, taxes, etc., which is not outrageous, especially with a strong Canadian dollar. I'll likely pull the trigger on it within the next week or two.

For a clever and easy(once constructed) set-up tool for the Jet 10-20 check out " "http://www.joewoodworker.com/performax.htm"---for some reason I can't get links inserted, or photos to attach anymore. I know a few others here have made this dandy little item for aligning and it is helpful. I threw one together but haven't needed it since initial setup after purchase maybe 3 years ago. Mine hasn''t gotten a great deal of use since I have been somewhat limited by a totally trashed knee(now also totally replaced by titanium and UHMW as of 3/21/2011-two more PT appointments) and a low back that has ignored surgery and about every needle-based lumbar procedure imaginable. I had a few nasty falls going down the basement steps; I live alone and now darn near wear a cellphone pursuant to orders from daughter. I had been reduced to bumping down on my butt and like many of you stand for most work-getting back up the stairs was the real challenge.

If you are really limited by a knee, I highly recommend replacement-the rehab is pretty painful at the start, but the pain is a worthwhile investment-sorry, wandering again-Medicare in 17 days and STMD.