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Alright guys, Spring is in the air and the fresh air has given me TAS (Tool Acquisition Syndrome). Next on the list is an Auriou Rasp or two. Which Size and Grain is recomented for neck carving? Also, this "handed" thing, If you hold the tool in your right hand, I presume you want a normal "right" handed version and not the "Left", correct.

Thanks,
Scott

I was thinking of the Dragon Rasps as well. But I have heard such good things about the Aurious, I figured that was the way to go. Where can you get handes for the Dragon Rasps?

As a lefty, I hate using right hand files but hate to have to spend more than the next guy so I just use right handed ones. I can get the job done but it would be nice to have left have a set of lefties.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

I just got one of the stew mac dragon rasps, I got the large one and I decided to get the coarse one only, and not the finer tooth one as well. It is pretty coarse and it does require more sanding/sraping after wards, but it hogs off a lot of material quickly, which is what I wanted it to do.

Obviously, I would prefer to have an auriou, as I love high quality tools, but for my purposes, the dragon rasp works well, and it is a third the cost.

Regarding the handle, I'm just using an old file handle, but the dragon rasp does seem to have quite a large tang (did I just make that up or is that really what the area that the handle connects to is called), and the handle did not fit too well.

I like these handles: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=GT-RASPHAND&Category_Code=&ScWidth=javascript:ScreenWidth()

I use a pair of nicholson rasps a 49 and 50 mine are the newer brazil made rasps which I have heard arent as good as the old ones but seem to work very well, and arent very expensive..

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MK5acoustics.com

Another hopefully-not-too-abrasive opinion and a few options...

The Dragons are plainly not Aurious. They're not even necessarily cheaper, in my opinion, as you really do need the coarse and finer Dragon to produce the same effect as a single Auriou in the right size, profile, and grain. You can feel the difference in sharpness and fineness in the palm of your hand. That said, the Dragons will get you there, and they're a whole lot better than the worthless rasp-shaped-objects (RSOs) Nicholson now foists as their new #49 and #50.

http://tinyurl.com/Old-vs-New-Nicholsons

I'm also not particularly fond of the profile and taper of the Dragons, but they should be okay for neck work, and the price is right, I suppose, if you're just buying the coarse. At just over $50 each, they're certainly going to please anyone who's tried the recent Nicholsons.

Although the large Dragon has a 10" cutting length, this really isn't the same as the usable stroke length in a the same 10" Auriou (or most other 10" rasps), as the Dragon tapers too quickly to a point, in my opinion. You get a lot more usable rasp with one Auriou cabinetmaker's profile than with both Dragon rasps at from StewMac. Compare the outlines to see what I mean.

http://tinyurl.com/AuriouLarge
http://tinyurl.com/DragonLarge

It's favorable to have a longer cutting stroke of constant width. The Dragon gives this up for seemingly greater variation in cutting widths, but this is misleading, as the Auriou works quite nicely when only half the rounded profile is used. One could actually do without the final pointy quarter. If you need a narrower cut, better to buy a smaller rasp, and not a smaller one with that same abrupt too-pointy profile. At any rate, if you've only used Nicholsons which don't have teeth stitched edge to edge, you'll have a very different sense of usable width.

The Aurious are simply worth it. Expensive, yes, but worth it. By the way, a 10" cabinetmaker's Auriou in 11-grain is a good all-round rasp if you can have only one. Besides, while the Aurious show a broad selection of grains, what's actually available at this point are mostly coarser than I'd prefer (9-grain is about as coarse as I'd personally go).

I need to say that nearly all my rasp use is sculptural (wood, ivory, plaster, resin, stone), some cabinetmaking, no luthiery whatsoever (okay, a couple necks, but that's it -- I prefer carving where wood or stone is involved), and I lean toward finer-grained rasps. Also, many of my rasps were stitched myself, so I'm somewhat picky.

More options:

The Gramercy hand-cut rasps from Joel Moskowitz's ToolsForWorkingWood.com, not altogether cheap, but the profiles are good and they're stainless steel if you're ever working green or high-tannin wood.

http://tinyurl.com/GramercyHand-cutRasps

The other French hand-cut rasps from Lee Richmond's TheBestThings.com. I have not tried these, nor even seen one, but they're worth a look. The half-round cabinet rasps are offered in shallow, medium, and tight radii.

http://tinyurl.com/Hand-cutFrenchRasps

Another good hand-cut rasp (which I have used) is the Herdim from Dick GmbH (soon to be renamed DICTUM), but these run 200mm or less. The 150mm crossing rasp is great for carving, though.

http://tinyurl.com/HerdimHandCut

One of my favorites, although they're only 8", are the Oliver Kutzall structured-tooth (SSG) half-round carbide files (rasps), which work in any direction, push-pull, left-right, and if they clog, clean them with a propane torch. Available from various sculpture supply houses and direct:

http://tinyurl.com/SSGhalf-round

And lastly, for the push-pull, chirality thing, it's hard to beat half-round (or flatter) sanding sticks covered with a hard, blocky coarse grit in a closed coat. Klingspor 1" belts in 40, 50, 60 or 80 grit work really well. A single $1.20 30" belt makes three 10" sanding sticks. Easy, versatile, really cheap.

I like my Microplane rasps.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Since Dick has been mentioned, this post might be useful for Euro readers who buy there but would likely be put off by the cheap price of this rasp. At 10$ this is the best tool steal ever. Todd pointed it out thinking it might have the same origin as the SM Dragons. In any case it cuts fast and nice enough, and very important, it lasts. I even used it on bone. I like it nearly as much as my Herdim rasps and I'm going to hoard a few more.

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Build log

That's a really good point, Todd. I've seen Aurious quickly worn from challenging wood species with heavy silica content, whereas the Herdims will take about anything you throw at them. My homemade rasps got the usual hardening and tempering routine as they're tool steel. Some thinner, narrower shapes, such as needle rasps required torque plates to make them behave during quench. There are advantages in manufacturing with softer steel then case hardening, but at current prices, Aurious aren't as easy to rationalize as before, but if one can afford them, I'd say they're worth it.


The F. Dick files sold by Rio Grande in Albuquerque originated with Johann Friedrich Dick in 1848. Later, he turned over the business to one of his sons, Heinrich Hermann, from which the brand HERDIM, for Hermann Dick, Markneukirchen, comes. Heinrich Dick, his brother Rudolf Dick, along with their new partner, Petra Steinberger, continue the line.

Back to rasps; all my Aurious were pre-labor shakedown, too, so I can't say anything one way or the other about their new production, although I'm told they're every bit as good, and they feel and appear to be (haven't used one other than to take a couple test swipes). One thing I can say, they sure wouldn't have wanted to lose experienced stitchers. I'm lucky I enjoyed doing it and have the optics to make it consistent, because I'd sure hate to try to make a living at it. It takes me four to six times as long to do one. At least.

I will say I like the profile on the dragon rasps. I use the pointy end quite a bit and it keeps me from having to reach for a different rasp as much. You can also get away with just the fine Dragon rasp too. You don't really have to have the coarse one especially if you are like me and tend to bandsaw pretty close to your thickness.

I'm sure the Auriou rasps are well worth getting all the sizes one could want if you have the money. I considered getting them seriously too, but wanted to check out these Dragon rasps first and when I got them I didn;t feel the need to get any more.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

The Dragon rasps rock. I've been using the big coarse one for carving necks for years (I believe when SM introduced them) and it makes a quick job easily cleaned with a cabinet file and scraper. The pointy shape allows it to get in tight spaces. Get a good handle, it counts.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I have the Tools for Working Wood sawhandle rasp. It is excellent for its named purpose but is useful all around. When it comes to reliable tools for handwork, it is safe to put your total trust in products Joel offers. The Gramercy line of rasps and other items is excellent value.

Joel does business in the old fashioned way that is also carried on by Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen. If you don't like it and have not ruined it while finding out, a full refund will come upon the return of the tool.

I want to further commend a TFWW product that is often criticized for expense until one puts it to use. "Joel's Butt"--- really, his HorseButt strop material is different in the positive way. The $30 buys you a piece of strop material that is truly hard, is usable on the rough side with diamond paste or Chromium Oxide greenbar and a smooth side that used plain renders a wicked sharp[tm] edge to a tool. I have all kinds of premium leather of all ages laying around here and none compare to the consistency of HorseButt-so, I have purchased more than one- I sometimes teach tool shaping and honing and introduce folks to this pricey little item, alongside of equally carefully prepared leather strips from my collection. Joel's Butt comes out on top.

Give his Gramercy rasps a try.

Finally-if you have fine quality rasps that have lost their "bite," then send them off to "boggstools"- excellent revival of your rasps/files with similar customer satisfaction policies as those mentioned above. If a rasp you send won't "revive" you are not charged-prices are a nice surprise in today's economy.

John, Laurent -- I'll concede to your far greater experience as luthiers. I have a panoply of rasps and files, so I'm happy to use a smaller, narrower rasp when needed. The Dragon's a better deal, then, if you only need the finer one.

I have the 4151 and feel no need for another (for neck carving at least). The tooth pattern is extremely aggressive without being too coarse if that makes sense.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Actually, that does make sense and sounds like it works well in your hands. I didn't mind the wider section so much but didn't like the cutting action and finish at the pointy end. Could be that I'm just more used to cabinetmaker's and model maker's profiles. I do like to perform the longest cut possible without changing the width of cut or changing the angle of attack. The smaller the cut being made on a workpiece, the smoother and less aggressive I want that cut, as well. Vive la différence, as they say.

You've made some really nice ones.

I love making handles. I use a Taig lathe with a simple tool rest instead of the metalworking cross-slide when making handles.

All my handles aren't round, though, or at least they don't end up round. I really like tapered triangular handles, usually rather slender and flatter, that tuck nicely into my hand and register positionally, haptically. This works well on needle rasps and files, especially when I'm working under the microscope, which is most of the time, where I have less peripheral visual cues. Hand tools are about hands and therefore handles. One of my favorite subjects. I've reread this a few times:

http://www.amazon.com/Human-Hand-Functi ... 0195173155

I'll second that, especially if you're just buying one strop. Buy Joel's (and I think he's still selling his for $22.95, which is a decent price). If you need several, however, I'd suggest buying from Siegel of California, who sells a hard-rolled horse butt for $13.95, which is about 1 lb. or about 1.5 sq ft -- not 5 sq ft as it states on the website, which should more likely be linear feet, but is nearer to 4 ft long and 3.5 to 5" wide in my butts. Compared to 15" x 3", or 45 sq inches, one horse butt will yield a maybe 200 sq inches. With waste, you should easily get about 3 or 4 full-size strops from one butt and leftovers for shaped and folded strops for carving gouges, inside and out.

https://www.siegelofca.com/itemdetail.asp?prodid=1152

To order online (it's a little tricky to find and is currently out-of-stock), go to:

https://www.siegelofca.com/

They do have a minimum order, so you may have to buy two or three, but it's easy to find other things you can use if you only need one butt.

Search on horse, and choose hard or soft rolled. I won't try to argue or disabuse anyone from the hard rolled, but will say I prefer the soft rolled. Both are equally hard, equally dense, but the soft rolled smooth side has the toothier, velvety finish. The hard rolled is glossier and takes well to a slight bit of fine sanding. That's all I'm going to say. If you want to read more, here's a thread from another forum:

http://tinyurl.com/Hard-vs-Soft

Me gotts one of them there "Dragon Rasps"...A1 first class superlative tool.

Still got the original price tag on it from Princess Auto here in Canada. $2.99 Thats right dudes, $2.99. ~ 15 years ago.

Have tried to order more from them but no luck.

Now is true that stuffs been inflating but from $2.99 to over $50 in 15 years is a bit much.

Non the less, they are simply the best rasp me ever used. maybe thats why SM charges so much for them.

blessings

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I haven't tried the Aurious, haven't tried any of the good rasps, but I did pick up one of the new Iwasaki carving files at Highland Hardware last week. 9 inches, I believe, for $30 without handle. It's the same idea as the Lie-Nielson Float. Rows of curved cutters. These things are wonderful. They make shavings/curls. Cuts marvelous and priced right. The smaller files that are sold in pairs are pretty smal. You may want to try one of these before parting with serious Auriou money.

Here's a link to Highland's Iwasaki page: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/iwas ... files.aspx

Well I ended up ordering the Auriou 12" 10 Grain rasp today... I love tools! Now I just got to generate the funds...