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I'm constantly searching for ways to speed up production and right now finishing is the area I'm focusing on. I've ordered one of the CureUV finishing systems wich will eliminate the drying time I used to have with Nitro. The next area I'm trying to speed up with the sanding and buffing of the finish. I've used a small piece of cork and sandpaper to wetland most of my finishes and I would like to switch to power sanding as much as I can. My main question is what should I be looking at for sanders? Size? Brands? Power source? I don't have a large compressor right now, but I may be in the position to get one sometime soon.

As a side note I recently came across this sander which looks interesting
http://www.woodessence.com/Mirka-CEROS-Sander-P186C27.aspx

Thanks

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Hi Josh

Hopefully you get some good responses (I kinda have a vested interest)

Here's a link for some pads you might consider. They do a good job on the back and fronts. Still have to hand do the sides though.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... ,190,43040

Neil

My sanders were called apprentices....

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Very creative chris touchez

I've had a lot of luck with Dynabrade orbitals, but they require a lot of air. And water traps etc., if you don't want hot oily water dripping on your guitar as you work. I use 3m 30 and 15 mic paper. No wetsanding at all, and a body and neck only take about 30-45 min to level sand ready for buffing.
I also have a low profile Porter Cable sander which is pretty good too, but requires more caution as it doesn't have touch sensitive speed control like the dynabrade.
Those aforementioned Wood Essence ones sure look interesting...may be a good way around a huge compressor...

Man, just watched the Mirka vid. Basically an electric version of the air Dynabrades. Unless you really want a compressor (big, noisy, stinky) for something else, I'd say get the Mirka. I'm gonna get one real soon, thanks for the link!

No problem, If you get one before I do let us know how it works. I'm certainly not going to run out and get a big compressor if I don't have to. Down the road I may get one for spraying anyway.

Am I understanding you right that you only use 2 different grits of paper for sanding finish? And you do the whole guitar in 30-45 min! That is several hours less then what it is taking me right now. What about the waist and around the headstock on the neck?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm really interested.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Yup, you read it right. All ros, 2 grits only. Waists, headstock and the whole kaboodle. I find when I hand sand I get deep long swirls instead of shallow ones. I believe the mic paper works out to be about 1000&1500. I think.... I won't say there's not a learning curve to avoid sandthrough's, but I simply can't imagine doing a whole guitar by hand. I'd simply die.
Again, I prefer the Dynabrade, and that one you linked too looks identical, but electric. Contro control control...

What's your hurry?

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

-

Part of it is wanting to speed up the process so that I can get on with other parts of the building. Right now I'm probably spending around 5-6 hours block sanding the finish on each guitar. If I can cut that down then that is time I'll be free do work on other things or maybe just get out of the shop a little earlier. The other part of this is that more power sanding and less block sanding is easier on the arm.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Exactly. All my work is done outside of a full time job, a band, life in general. Plus my guitars are half the price of an established luthier. So I need to make 2x guitars to draw the same amount from it. So it's not so much about being in a hurry as it is about not spending time when you don't need to, and very much about saving human wear and tear. Anyway, if I hurry right now, I can get in 1/2 hr of buffing before work...

I use a Porter cable RO and Joest brand foam backed velcro papers all dry which is made for vac dust collection. I scored a whole bunch of this from the North American distributor who is here in Windsor On. when he closed the NA processing plant.
I just contacted him, Robert Seke 248 765 6345 to get some 2000 grit the price is more as his closeout stock is gone but is still reasonable. He also has the rolls of stock that he will sell by the Meter I purchased some some of this and cut to the size of my sanding blocks.

Give him a call Josh he is very good to deal with and knows his abrasives and their uses.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

5 to 6 hours block sanding?????

I've got ~4 hours in a Varnish finish, including porefilling, prep, applying the finish, then sanding and buffing. Nitro is a little quicker, since not as much sanding is required between coats. (This isn't including curing time)

One of the keys is doing a good job applying the finish, especially the last few coats. Before the buffing wheel I (hand) sand with 600, then 800, then 1200. Again, if the finish is applied good it doesn't take that long to get it ready for the buffer. My finishing DVD (available from my website) is shot in real time, from porefilling, through buffing, and it's a few minutes over 4 hours long. I'll re watch it, but I believe the block sanding, before buffing is less than 30 minutes.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Well it is probably true that I have not been sanding as efficiently as I could have. There have been certain things that I have done because I know I can get good results even if they are not the most time efficient. Sometimes it takes me a while before I get around to reevaluating my methods and coming up with a more efficient method. I've been tackling different parts of building over the past 2 years or so and trying to make big improvements in efficiency while maintaining or improving on quality . Now I've made it to finishing.

One more question on power sanders for those who are familiar with the high end orbit sanders. I've noticed that a number of the high end models are available with different size orbits. Am I correct that a smaller orbit would be more desirable for finish work? Or does it really make that big of a difference?

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

I just started using foam backed Abralon 500 & 1,000 grit & cut levelling time (on nitro) by at least 75%. I purchased a few Abralon discs from Woodessence, last time I ordered supplies, just to try them out. I cut them up & stuck 'em to hard sanding blocks. I'm sold!
I'm still chicken about using a power sander. I'd rather spend some extra time & some elbow grease than have a sand-through.
I AM willing to be converted, though.

Join us! Jooooiiiiinnn us!

Those cut very well, but are a poor choice for level sanding - they are way too soft. Fine grits pre-buff they work great, though.



Killer! I found the model 400 on ebay for between $5 and $15 second hand. This looks great also: http://www.amazon.com/Nitto-Kohki-FS-50 ... B0027SH2OK

The 400 is not the same thing. The 600 is actually a stroke sander where the 400 is a jitterbug. Although for that price the 400 is probably well worth it.

the 600 sells for like $500. I had one for a long time and loved it until I started subbing out finishes. I traded it for some wood.

The 600 works well sanding dry too getting out orbital scratches.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I checked out one of those Mirka Ceros sanders at my local tool boutique.

I really liked the feel and everything appeared to be of high quality. I have a Festool 6" that works great but I find myself lusting after the svelte little Mirka.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Thanks John. Do you prefer the model 600 just because it is a wet sander, or because it is an in line sander compared to the orbital?

Because it's an inline. And it's not one of the in-lines that has a ski attached to the bottom. It's a good size for guitar work (1/3rd sheet). I never actually used the auto-water squirt thing built into the 600. But it's a very good wet sander, as well as does well dry too.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I just finished sanding my Cocobolo wedge with the Joest dry papers mentioned in an ealier post on this thread. I started with 600, then 1000 and 1500 using my PC RO sander with vac attached. I then went over it by hand with 2000, no scratches that will not buff out. I found that only going to 1500 was not smooth enough, but the 2000 cured that. I will buff this evening, I find if I wait a while after sanding the buffing is goes better. I will post some pictures soon.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Thanks John. I have never used an in-line, so Ive got to ask, what is it about these sanders for finish work? Is the in-line action less prone to corn or clump the sandpaper??