Official Luthiers Forum!

I need to get a few sets of bridge pins.
I am confused, why?, because I've got some old ones,
I don't know where I got them.
They measure- 1.010/.230/.155, non slotted.
I've got some Gurian pins that measure- .810/.200/.162, slotted.
LMI has pins with measurements all over the map.
Allied has the Gurian pins.
S.Mac. has more standardized sizes which are closest to what I want,
.100/.220/.133, and I will get these.
Why do they make those pins with skinny diameters at the top,
when you have to drill a hole 3/16" (.1875")?
The .220" top measurement has lots more seating after tapering the holes.
Is that better?
I would think so.
Also, slotted or not?
I've heard the non slotted "sound" better.
Myth?
Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated, as I want to settle in my mind a good pin and stay with it.
Thanks...
P.S.-5 degree taper is my reamer size.

Lately, I've been a bit frustrated with bridge pins, too.There seems to be a trend towards thinner pins, these days. I have been using some I bought from LMI & when fitted nicely, the hole is too small to easily insert the string ball. The D'Adario's aren't bad with their smaller balls, but Martin & others are a pain to install.
If anyone knows where I can get larger 3 degree pins, I'd like to hear about it.

Gurian pins are 3º taper if I recall.
The main advantage of unslotted pins is that the strings ball end anchor under the bridgeplate and thus have little opportunity to cause damage or chew through the plate.
The best commercial pins are the StewMac ones IMHO, very accurate and beautifully made. They have a 5º taper and are 100% interchangeable.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I like the StewMac bone pin size (5 degree, .22 under the collar). I have been making my own pins and have been more or less copying that size. I can usually just fit the ball (D'addario balls) in through the hole although if my bridge wasn't tapered towards the back I might not be able to. The 3 degree taper would help with that problem, and I have the reamer, but I haven't moved over to altering the taper. In the few repairs I have done where pins needed to be replaced I was glad that the pins were smaller, and 5 degree. There was room to enlarge the hole slightly for an oversize pin or re-ream for 3 degree.

Colonial sells 3 degree bone pins and I think Bob C was selling pins made by member Louis for a while although I don't know if he still is. I make them on occasion for others if needed in a non-standard wood.

I always use the unslotted pin and slot the bridge. David Collins did a nice little photo group showing the stress on the thin part of the pin with a slotted opening and I was convinced to transfer that force to the bridge plate alone in my work.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

+1

I've tried more pins than I can recall and Stew Mac's Vintage style ones are the best I can think of for standard, off the self pins.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Thanks all.
Looks like I'm headed in the right direction.
Another thing I like about the S.M. pins is they make oversize ones too!

Those look like candles.
Just kidding, ha-ha.
They look nice!
Thanks.

I've made pins for the last 10 years for builders, dealers, players, and myself and friends. When I first started making them I contacted as many large builders as I could and asked questions of the ones willing to take the time to answer those questions. I've had people send me pins off old guitars and new guitars to match the size. The one thing I know for sure is there is no consistency.

The Gurian pins are 3 degree pins and the size fluctuates about +/- .003. That doesn't sound like a lot but on a 3 degree taper it is huge on how high the pin will sit. They are much smaller that the older non slotted 3 degree pins that were in use almost 20 years ago. There is a theory, by a major builder, that the way the pin should fit is so that the ball end kicks the pin over and wedges it into the slot. This makes it easier to pull the pins when changing strings. Personally I do not like that idea. I know another mid-sized mfg that grabs a handfull of pins and sorts them with special made gages to insure that the pins are consisitent with each other. They also partially slot and ramp the bridges using the Gurian pins

Martin and Gibson now use the 5 degree pins, although Martin drills straight holes and with the 3/16" through hole a 3 degree pin actually works fairly well and won't stick up. If you trig out the taper on a 5 degree pin the ball end will not fit through the bridgeplate on a fully tapered hole. John Arnold has pointed out that when the holes are slotted the ball ends will fit through, and they do, but just barely. There has been lots of discussion on the UMGF on why the pins stick up on the new guitars. I think its because of the straight holes.

I have talked to 1 small builder who had no idea what size taper was on the pins. The pins on the particular guitar I was dealing with had pins so loose I felt like I could have dropped them in from 3' above the guitar. I really like to fit he pins to the bridge without the strings on and then slot the bridge and plate to accomodate the strings. 5 degree are probably a bit easier to remove when changing strings and that is what I use, but to me the taper doesn't really matter. I think the important thing is find something you like that is consistent and then stay with it. If you can do that and make sure they fit properly all your pins be interchangeable, and that is something you may appreciate later. Buy a good reamer

Tim

Tim: Excellent points and well said.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Tim is right, Gurian pins vary quite a bit and when I was using them I had to number them 1 to 6 on every guitar. BTW the slot on the Gurians is pretty shallow, so the bridge needs to be slotted as well to clear the strings bottom wraps. Not a bad solution, and definitely better than deeply slotted pins where the pin eventually wears out (or distorts with plastic ones), allowing the string balls to slowly chew through the bridgeplate, and eventually the top.
A bit far from the OP, but it reminds me that I would love to find somebody who can make real vintage pins, the ones with a flat head, no collar and unslotted.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

So I did a test this morning on a piece of 1/2" ply,
which is close to the thickness of my bridge (at the pin location) which is 1/4"+,
plus top .115", plus plate .115".
Pretty close to 1/2".
Reamed 5 degrees until they were 1/64" from bottoming,
and stuffed the bigger 5 degree in,
and the Gurian 3 degree (?).
The Gurian wiggles very slightly,
but fits quite nicely.
So, I think anything goes here.....

Another vote for the pins Filippo has-I love them!