Official Luthiers Forum!

My 3rd build is HUMMING along! Keeping my fingers crossed. My client wants external knobs, no barn-door. Nothing involving placement in the sound hole. Like the Taylor ES system. It doesn't look like they sell those on the open market? Any ideas?
Thanks, John

K & K Pure Western mini. An external Pure pre-amp sold by K & K works well if you want extra volume in a large room situation, but the pick-up works well passively in most situations.

I would second that for a K&K. Additionally you can them with a volume control that fits just inside the soundhole so you can adjust the volume conveniently.

Marc

Make that a third recommendation for the K&K. In my opinion the Taylor
pickups are not good.

put me in the K&K camp . I have used many pickup systems and find this one a very good unit . Nice response and good instructions . I like this through my Ampeg portaflex

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

5th

Pat

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com

The K&K pickups are excellent for certain applications. They generally fail in loud settings as the primary pickup. They are heavy on the midrange and probably a bad choice if your player has a very percussive style. I've found K&K's accessory controls, preamps, etc. kind of poorly conceived. For solo acoustic coffee house/listening room gigs they're hard to beat. It's important to know what the main application will be for the guitar/pickup. These opinions are based on installing, I guess, more than a thousand K&K pickups, and an equal number of Fishman, Baggs, Highlander, etc.
The best on board sound available now I think is the Baggs Anthem, an opinion supported by the musicians and sound guys I work with.

+1 on the Anthem

_________________
Dan

Can the Anthem be installed after the guitar is closed? or does it have to be done before?

_________________
Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

I've been using the K&K mini western with their external preamp for several years in an orchestra. Not as loud as a rock band but certainly way louder then your average coffee-house venue. Our sound guys like it a lot; they're able to get a real nice acoustic sound from it. That said, I'll have to check out the Baggs Anthem, might try it on one of the builds I have in progress now.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Yes. I have only installed the Anthem on finished instruments. Here are two things to note. The soundhole mounted controls will not fit easily with every soundhole bracing pattern (Martin and Collings patterns are fine for instance, but not some others.) The under saddle element requires that the saddle be somewhat loose fitting - so be sure you've sufficient depth in the saddle slot.

I've got a Nashville-type guy that has one of my guitars and we put a K&K in which he uses for quieter gigs and it has a pigtail so he can plug a Sunrise soundhole pickup in for loud stages. He mixes it through a D-TAR. Thanks for the info on the Baggs, I'll check it out.

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

If you need more volume, use the K&K power mix .. its the pure western, plus a undersaddle .. you can mix/blend with the outboard preamp as required .. more pure for less volume gigs, more US for louder gigs..

Tommy Emmanuel has used my baritones live with just a pure western and the K&K preamp, plugged directly into his rig .. and he doesnt exactly play quietly.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

"Tommy Emmanuel has used my baritones live with just a pure western and the K&K preamp, plugged directly into his rig .. and he doesnt exactly play quietly."

Yes, of course there are exceptions, perhaps especially if you have the services of an experienced professional sound engineer. That doesn't mean it was the best choice. They made the combination work, and with a baritone which makes it more impressive. Much depends on the instrument, the installation, the player, the venue, and the staff.
Boiling this down, right now I see the Anthem as very good combination of bombproof signal, sound quality, and good design.

He did say he didnt want something in the soundhole .. looks like the Anthem is a soundhole mount mic unit thats looks like that other Baggs soundhole PU ...

Yes Tommy has an awesome sound guy and setup ... but still, take a look at the powermix, plenty of gain from the undersaddle, and nothing in the soundhole.

.. isnt the anthem still using a mic/undersaddle combo .. how does that not feedback at high levels ...

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

The soundhole part of the Anthem houses volume and tone controls and a mic trim pot. I think it has a very clean look and is only visible on the very edge of the soundhole. You are right however, that does not mean there is nothing at all in the soundhole. I interpreted the qualification to mean no soundhole mounted pickup i.e. Rare Earth/Sunrise/M1.
The Anthem is a mic/UST combination but the mic mount is a new idea. It's in a kind of pod which is affixed to the bridge plate. Now I regret that I an unable to tell you why that configuration prevents feedback, but it works. I'm going to find out. I've put them in lots of gigging musicians guitars - most recently Josh Ritter's J45. He's saying it's the best sound he's ever had. I'll get more feeedback from him after his current tour.

I am after emulating what he has, and wants again. Knobs on the outside upper bout is the #1 requirement. Then work my way back.
Here is why I can't have anything in the soundhole. The peace symbol and inner circle are on magnets for removal.


So;#1 knobs on the upper bout
#2 nothing in the sound hole area
#3 quality of the pick up

It would be nice if #3 were a #1 on sound. But the layout is more important than cutting edge sound.