Official Luthiers Forum!

Stunning cocobolo

dude, youre obsessed with hibdons figure so fine section! you need a twelve step program!

_________________
sweat the small stuff.

I know that coco is quite stable....but good luck to who ever is game enough to take that one on. Seems like we are starting to loose sight of exactly what the term 'figure' means when we are talking wood. I never really considered 'flatsawn' to qualify.

Cheers

Kim

Yeah, that one looked like too much flatsawn to me. I was really tempted by this one for $125 in the sale, but alas, there wasn't enough else to make it worth the shipping price. No idea why it didn't get snapped up, the chunk out of the corner on the sides would just get trimmed off anyway.


So far my favorites of the figure so fine section were this one from the first batch, which I regret passing up for $250. Those sides are incredible, as well as the back. Still some flatsawn, but not too bad


And I really like the Honduran rosewood up there right now, but it's way more expensive than I'd pay for it, so I'll just have to settle for looking at the picture


And of course the mega-cloud set

395$, ouch. Just to show how taste varies, I would not even want to take it for free Set 942, now that is something I'd grab in a heartbeat, if I wasn't afraid of using coco

_________________
Build log

Agree with Alexandru...wouldn't touch this stuff, and 942 either...don't like sapwood. I have one set of "beeswing" Coco left and just don't care to use it. Too toxic for me.

Well I am crazy about sapwood myself Go figure.

Speaking of beeswing, one of the most beautiful rosewood backs I ever saw, all rosewood varieties included, is this one by Greg Byers. I would buy something like this just to have it there, in this grade I didn't even feel the need to use it anymore. I already have a couple Madagascar sets that I love so much.

_________________
Build log

Well...after seeing that photo Alexandru, maybe I'll use mine sometime.
I really have a problem with the tonal qualities of Coco too. Not sure what the problem is, but seems like it either takes a very, very long time to break in, or doesn't work all that well with red spruce. To me it sounds good, but slightly "sterile" or just tight. I'm thinking it might be because it's so oily. Week long bath in acetone? I don't know, maybe it just needs German spruce...

Haans, or maybe cedar? I'm curious how coco taps in general, I never handled any. I kind of like the idea of pairing the back and top according to their damping, although I have no first hand evidence it works like this. Still, I recently made one from light weight, low damping Euro, paired with a glassy tone, very heavy Amazon body and it is somewhat metallic in the trebles. The bass is killer though and probably the treble will sweeten in time.

_________________
Build log

IMO cocobolo can be very edgy tonally, and pairing it with a very stiff and hard red spruce top may add a bit too much to a good thing, borderline aggressive and lacking warmth and depth, but not bass. I generally go for a softer red spruce top, or Carpathian or German. I also thin cocobolo beyond what most builders would consider sane.
As for figure, give me straight grain any day as well. But that swirly flat sawn stuff is unattractive both visually and structurally. IMHO, of course.

_________________
Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Laurent, how is the tap tone of coco in general? Glassy Brazilian-style or dull? You seem to be implying that the density alone can push the tone towards metallic or aggressive, not just the low damping. It is interesting because I heard other people saying Maccasar can give a "bright" treble, even if the stuff is clearly cardboard in tone.

_________________
Build log

I think much of the wood above would impose too much of it's own aesthetic on any guitar made from it. Structural concerns aside (especially bending this stuff and not ending up with warpy sides) it's better I think to have the builder create the aesthetic and not have it be dictated by the materials.
If one does use flashy wood, I think the prudent thing is to keep the trim to an absolute minimum.
Too much bling beyond this sort of back and side stock and a guitar can end up looking like, as my mother used to say, a circus elephant.
I understand why there's attraction to this stuff and where there may be an individual luthier market that appreciates it but certainly in my own work I prefer straight well quartered stock.
For smaller steel strings very dense back and sides coupled with very stiff spruce can certainly result in too bright or brittle response. I always preferred a Brazilian and Sitka combination for these and it didn't hurt if the Sitka was poorly quartered to boot.
Classicals however benefit from this as it's pretty difficult to build a classical that is indeed "too" bright.

That's not Cocobolo, it's Crackobolo.

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Hello to all. My name is Jeff Bernstein. I'm very fortunate to be a student of Todd Stock. I wanted to participate in this thread because I LOVE cocobolo and have recently bought a couple of nice sets from Hibdon.

I'm a fingerstyle player. I have a Beneteau coco/engleman 000-12. The guitar is well balanced with a punchy bass and fat trebles. I like it so well I thought I'd try to create a little different flavor of 000-12. The guitar I'm building with Todd is coco/redwood. The redwood top is very stiff and perfectly quartered. Lots of ray fleck. I only hope I get the voicing right. I've been doing a lot of reading and there seems to be many schools of though on how to voice and what to listen for.

I also have a small dream guitar wood stash. I picked up a couple of masters LS Redwood tops from Hank Mauel four years ago. I had Marc Beneteau build me this baritone with one set http://www.beneteauguitars.com/guitr_pi ... ari_1.html. I'll likely pair the other to the figured coco set I bought last week from Hibdon, which hopefully I've sucessfully attached.

Taptone is usually fantastic, comparable to Braz or MadRW. However cocobolo is much heavier, and has more surface hardness and abrasion resistance. Macassar ebony can tap like wet cardboard, and also some sets have a pretty good taptone IME, it is also generally lighter than cocobolo.

_________________
Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Now that there's funny, i don't care who you are! LOL Whether or not you like the wood, you gotta admit...ZZZiiiinng!

_________________
Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

That first set does make me think of clowns...

The Coco that I have has kind of a "thuddy" ring to it. The guitars seem to have the characteristics that Laurent describes. There is plenty of bass, and the mids and trebles are there, but sterile is the best word I can think of. It's solid sounding, fat, but may be lacking that warmth of BRW or Indian. I have a 6 string with Engelmann, and while it does sound good also, there is the same feeling. Doesn't seem to have the liveliness of the 70 year old BRW that I have, or the Hormigo (now there is a wood that rings like a bell when tapped) that I have. Unfortunately, the Hormigo won't make an old time guitar unless I dye it.
My white oak has a real cardboardy thud to it, but when combined with red spruce it is just alive.
I have a feeling that Laurent is right. It has to be quite thin. Red spruce is just too fundamental.
I am tempted to dump the beeswing set in a vat of acetone though...

I admit, I am hooked on the Hibdon figure so fine section. I don't really have any flatsawn sets, at least none that flatsawn. I was hoping that someone here bought it who had experience working with coco that is so flatsawn and had gotten good results. I looked at that set a couple times and although I find it incredible to look at, I couldn't drop the money on it because of the amount of how flatsawn it is. I was really hoping to track that build though so that I could get some good answers and solutions to working with that type of wood.

Like Mr. Stock's new student, I am also crazy for coco for a couple reasons.
#1 its appearance
#2 as Flippo mentioned I have also read that it can get very glassy, almost on par with BRW, which is not exactly common!

In any event I have always figured that the price on coco is heavily dictated by the hazards related to working with the material, and the subsequent willingness of luthiers to work with the material. Having said that, for sets like my avatar, taking proper precautions and the hindrance it creates is worth the result, or at least I hope. I only have 2 sets of coco, both are quite stunning. One from Uncle Bob and one from Hibdon. Neither are terribly faltsawn, and the one I got from Bob is curly. As much as I like the look of the set I posted initially, I too am hesitant to work with it.

thanks for the replies,
Joey

I also bought this set during Jerry's November sale...For the price and figure I could not say no. The back looks like the edges are on fire!

Hey, I'm weak.

http://www.hibdonhardwood.com/Images/Coc-961.jpg

If you fear figure check out Daniel Turners works here. Just wild.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_i1ehG2TUAbw/S ... uitar4.jpg

_________________
Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

Ok, I'll be a contrarion, but by golly, I love the look of ALL that stuff, and would happily work with it.
Sets 944 and 811 would make me a happy man.

Someone--else--had to say it!

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I'm with Steve on this one. I'd build with that set in a heartbeat. When properly dried cocobolo is quite stable.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498