Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm curious to know how some of you go about this. For instance the price between a set of mahogany and a set of rosewood is about forty bucks, but a rosewood guitar is usually quite a bit more than a mahogany guitar. Say a client wants koa, ok, koa 400 bucks. Do you only upcharge 400$, or a cost plus percentage etc.?
What's your formula?

I always thought people charged way more for curly koa because its easier to break it and so you have to account for possible risks working with the wood. I am not sure about rosewood since it's pretty easy to bend, it could be finishing issues though since as far as I know, sometimes the oil in the rosewood causes issue with finishing, or perhaps possibly allergic reaction to rosewood dust...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

The big shops charge ridiculous prices for nicer woods because..... they can! 9 times out of 10, the processes and people are the same between a low end instrument and a higher end instrument (at least until you get to the custom shop level).


Trev

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

I used to try to base those decisions partly on what the rest of the market was doing but now I charge based on my costs and any increased difficulty in using the wood.

Stuff with markups not related to initial cost:

Cocobolo due to the extra protection required when working with it.

Brazilian because I lose more sets to defects.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

You can check out my prices here to give you an idea of what I charge.

http://www.fayguitars.com/guitars/prices.html

When I first started out and for my initial 5 years as a builder, I just mostly charged close to what the actual sets cost me. If you are a hobby builder, then you can do a lot of things that a professional builder simply can't -- or at least, most of us can't.

Take Ziricote for example, costs about $300 for a decent set. In order for me to work with Ziricote, I want to have it in my shop for close to 1 year (to ensure it is a stable set with no cracking issues). This means that I need to have a couple sets of this stuff in my inventory to effectively offer it for customers and maintain an adequate supply. There is no way I would outlay this kind of money if I didn't make some profit on it. When you factor the hassle and capital investment, you will find that for special tonewoods, you really need to double your investment in the wood or it isn't worth it.

Put another way, do you realize how cost effective and time efficient we could be if we only offered 3 or 4 different woods. We would never have super expensive sets lingering in inventory for long periods of time. We could get bulk discounts.


Then you factor in the increased difficulty of some of these woods. Woods with extreme figure can break during bending and that is a lot of trouble. Woods like African Blackwood will dull your binding bit very quickly ($40 for a replacement bit).


There is so much difficulty and inefficiency added to our business model because we custom these tonewoods. So in order to make it - you charge the customer more.


Going along you will also have unexpected things happen. I had a customer drop out of a commission because of the bad economy and he simply couldn't afford it anymore. I had purchased a $1500 Old-growth Brazilian RW set for him. I haven't found a customer for this set yet and it has been about 3 years. Start factoring unexpected things like that into your business model.


Certain tonewoods seem way overpriced, like mastergrade Koa. Because I laminate my sides I never lose any sides during the bending process. And so, due to my processes I charge less for mastergrade Koa than a builder who uses solid sides. If I used solid sides and had a Koa set that cost over $400. You better believe I would charge more than a grand for it because eventually -- I would break a side and then who would be stuck paying with it.

Brazilian Rosewood is a major pain to work with. It costs a fortune. I honestly don't have the kind of money to outlay for these kind of sets and it is a real financial burden to acquire them -- let alone find a good quality set that I know will be stable and that also looks beautiful. If I am paying $1200 to $2000 for a premium set of Brazilian -- then I am going to upcharge close to $2500 to $4000 for that set. Otherwise it just isn't worth it. Then factor in old-growth mastergrade Brazilian which is incredibly difficult to find let alone, pay for. Then the price really goes up.

In the end, it is the customer's decision. If they want a great sounding guitar that also looks incredible - they can get it with a beautiful set of Indian Rosewood. If they can afford these expensive upgrades, then wonderful - let them pay for it. It isn't like any of us are actually making much money building for a living. Why cut our prices even more -- unless you want to live exclusively on Ramen.

You don't see many retailers selling their goods at cost, and with an added warranty. And not many retailers need special skill to pick among the goods being offered by their wholesalers.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Simple rule of supply and demand. Rosewood guitars are MUCH more in demand than mahogany, therefore, they cost much more to buy.
as far as the materials go, to a lumber yard, 40 bucks is a lot more money for a guitar sized parcel of wood.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Yep, the market rules. It's not that rosewood guitars are so outlandishly overpriced, it's that the mahogany ones are too dang cheap thanks to oversupply and inexpensive labor outside north America!

Rosewood is getting like that too, thanks to those Indonesian grown rosewoods (which is nearly indistinguishable to Indian Rosewood to the average consumer) and due to the higher demand for rosewood guitars, cheap Asian makers are also making them as well.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com