Official Luthiers Forum!

A quick question really, mainly to keep me motivated.

How many of you here started off building guitars with limited woodworking skills and by only using books/internet and other 3rd party resources (i.e no college or guitar building courses/teachers) and successfully finished a few guitars which they were proud of? I ask as I am starting to hit some major hurdles. I have seen some pretty drastic improvements in my work using hand tools but some things are pretty tough, mainly the technical aspects of the build. I'm going to persevere but some motivation is needed here .

I'm not aiming for a guitar to show at an exhibition, but something that looks decent and plays just as well. Anyone have a picture of their first guitar?

I am in same boat - and I bet there are plenty of others - your guitar will come out just fine.
I actually hit a slump now - and I screwed up two necks, which I still have not taken the time to rebuild - I doubt I will have time this week. I was just getting to the assembly phase as well.
Instead I am killing some time working on making a new workbench.

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

Same boat here too. Too many more and the boat will be full. Might capsize.

I have been stuck at bracing. Bracing is one of those technicalities you speak of. I want not just to understand it but become proficient at being able to understand grain and wood structure. Really not as hard as it seems but time is my Achilles heal. I have some brace wood coming from shane of High Mountain Tonewoods. Great guy to talk too and I am starting to really understand. So now I will make braces from sawn wood and split billet. This should really put me on the right track.

Other than that it's just move the motorcycle to pull some of the tools into position and "play" with the wood. For me it's to tackle one technicality at a time. Resawing was first, now it's bracing, next will be molds, gobar deck, shooting boards, bending, etc.

Wow... what the heck are we getting into??

No matter it's all great to learn and fun to boot. Not to mention that the product at the end is, well, hopefully a useable if not sweet sounding guitar.

Class of 2010 unite! John is right, there are plenty of us working on our first builds. I started my first at the beginning of the year and finished it last month. I posted the pics viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27289
I don't want to sound boastful, but to share the joy of this accomplishment. It is still a honeymoon, not a show piece, but a guitar, even stays in tune. It is worth all the frustration and time. I am so happy with it, the gaps in the rosette, the stained sides on the inside, crooked kerfing, repaired chips from the binding routing, when I screwed the template onto the headstock to rout, I had the layout wrong and had a hole halfway out from under the tuner washer, I used the 20's Gibson GAL plans, never thought that the tuner placement would make the middle tuner strings rub the E tuner posts, I did not do any of the extra thinning on the top or back, kept it simple and focused on completion, not anything fancy. The flaws I wear proudly I am happy that there is a guitar with flaws then no guitar at all. I started this week on #2, so much easier, in about 20 hours I got the sides bent, glued to the blocks and kerfed, and the top got its rosette, all processes way easier then the first and much cleaner, to me, the first was just a vehicle or obstacle to get the second, which needs to get done before the 3rd, and so on until #5 or #10, when I anticipate being a capable builder, or be able to build a guitar fluently.

In terms of encouragement, everything gets done one cut and stick at a time, but when I feel like I am not getting anything done, I go back to the list, and make it extremely detailed, so I have some things to cross off and feel like there is progress, it also helps when a bit of time is needed away from a process to hop to something else where progress can be made. I hope I am not repeating myself from other posts too much, but this is my method of getting #1 done. I do have a pro woodworking background which helps, but this is still one of the hardest projects I have tackled.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
Rob

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http://shastaguitar.com/
http://www.kalimbakit.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/comfyfootgr ... ature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/robert.renick.7

*jumps in the boat with everyone else*

Hi there!


Im getting close to being done with my first, when I started I owned a screwdriver and a few sockets I think... hehe. Didn't know the first thing about woodworking or tools. I used some plans I bought from LMI, Cumpiano's book, and various forums to get all my help. I also started a build thread at luthiercom.org with lots of photos and people were able to give me a lot of help that way since all the pictures encouraged them to come see what I was doing.

I didn't use any forms, molds, soleras or anything, just my bench, and it seems to be ok. I am at the french polishing stage and once that's done, just need to glue the bridge on, do the nut and saddle, then string'er up! Hopefully it sounds like a guitar when im done.

It has many many little cosmetic blunders, but should look fine in the end with all the purty polishing.

I feel your pain guys. I built my first three guitars out of my 9 x 11 bedroom stealing shop time at work when I could but doing much of it in my room, or kitchen etc... The first time I fired up the propane torch in the kitchen to bend some sides I had a roommate ready with the fire extinguisher . I had only the most rudimentary woodworking skills and did learn to use the tools as I was learning to build so it made everything a little more involved (and difficult). I have had many setbacks, braces popping off, seams opening, slips in shaping things etc... Not one of my first 4 or so guitars looked even close to as nice as some of the first efforts we see here.

For me it was beneficial to just get them done as well as I could and move on. I don't think it would have been good for my learning style to obsess over fixing every part of each guitar before moving on. I know what I could have done better and I worked on it on the next one.

The worst parts were having limited time to work and knowing each step was going to take forever and still not be quite right. That is still an issue sometimes but for me only time and slogging through it really helped (plus lots of time looking for answers online and asking people when I could). The frustration when something I had worked hard and long on went wrong was so annoying. Perseverance has paid off though, I am very happy with the work I am doing now.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

It's great to see others like me. I found bracing probably the most fun and the most natural part for me to do. Now if it is done well is another thing, but I feel that it is the one thing I have done the best I can (huge thanks to Woody_B on that one).

Bending is a pain the rear for me. I have a bending iron and it takes forever, I don't enjoy it at all (I am currently doing the sides now), however getting a Fox style bender here in the UK is impossible (other than making your own) and even then finding a blanket is pretty impossible. I may look into making a Fox bender after a few more builds.

Maybe there should be a rookies section of the forum for us all to vent .

No builder has ever been able to skip the first build. Go boldly and happily and keep the process enjoyable. Take pride in successes and laugh at mistakes but learn from both.

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Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/

Where are the pictures and the question? There is a lot of help available. John Hall at Blues Creek really helped me. If you can get there he will help you also. in the mean time - like I said - Pictures and Questions!


Steve

As John stated, you cannot skip the first build......simply persevere...read good reference books, enjoy the highlights and try to remember and learn from mistakes....'fit and finish' can be a bugger.....

I've started building 2 at a time to engrain the processes better from the first build to the second......joint the first, improve on the second, brace the first and try to duplicate on the second, etc,.etc.......that way I don't have to 'remember' things three months (or more) later.

I'm always referring to my reference books and here on the OLF......

Building guitars is a journey....enjoy the ride!!!!

Peter,
Trust me, you can do this! I started with no woodworking skills at all, and knew nothing about building anything. It took me 9 months to build my first guitar, and it turned out okay. But I did have some help from Robbie O'Brien. I did about 80% of the work by myself, and Robbie helped with the technical details like fretting, neck joint, and binding. But since I had no experience in woodworking, I had to learn everything as I went. I also had to buy the tools necessary to do it as I needed them. I've built 5 guitars and a total of 9 instruments over the last 5 years. So you can do it. Just enjoy the process and continue to learn. I still feel like I'm a total beginner, as there is just so much to learn. You can spend a lifetime learning everything there is to know about guitar building. Just don't get overwhelmed by the overall project. When you break it down into tiny steps, you can complete anything. Best of luck!

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Just like playing the guitar -
we need to practice the art of making as much as we can.

I've made hundreds of guitars but i messed up two $20.Braz. bridge blanks today !
A custom order for 18 hole classical bridges!

Well as long as I did'nt drop my wine !

Doing is learning!
Poop happens!
Mike

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Mike Collins

Another slow-as-molasses first timer here. I kicked off my little quest around the start of the year, and I still have a long way to go. My current objective is to assemble the box. I have the top and back ready for bracing, sides ready for bending (I love hot pipe bending), and right now I'm making a pile of spool clamps to glue the back on. I haven't needed a solera yet, and I think roping on the back would be the only real use I'd have for it, so it's not worth the effort of making and space to store it. I also have a half finished violin to get back to after the guitar is done, so I'd need spool clamps (albeit shorter and in less quantity) anyway.

I've made plenty of mistakes, but so far I've just accepted all of them and plodded on toward completion, rather than redoing things. Here are the main ones...
1. The headstock scarf joint doesn't look quite perfect, although it has no trouble at all handling my weight standing right on the joint, so I think it's ok.
2. I sanded the headstock veneer a little too thin. Should be ok for holding the nut in place, but binding won't be quite as pretty as I wanted
3. I snapped a piece of purfling while inserting it into the rosette, so it has a funky spot.
4. My fret slots are a tad crooked (i.e. I can't hold a saw vertical), although they're all equally crooked, so I'm hoping it won't be a problem. Maybe I should fill them in with something and re-cut though.

Oh, and Fox benders... haven't people built them using light bulbs as the heat source, rather than a blanket?

I've been doing it since the 1970's, but I still remember the first, and I heard from the owner several years ago. Folks that find out what I do always have some romantic notion of what a wonderful, satisfying, glorious job I have and have had, and I agree, but then I tell them about the not so romantic side of the trade, and always end with the comment that "It's just like any other job...it's just a bunch of tricks."
Having the fortitude to hang in there and learn enough of the "tricks" to get by is the hard part, but that is also true of any job that you want to excel at. Problem is most jobs pay more...

Is it too late to jump in this boat? It seems like I've hit every snag imaginable and I'm still early on in my first build. I can't even get the thickness sander to cooperate.

Hi All

Well, I did my first build a few years ago with very little woodworking experience, few tools and the Campiano book. I was pretty naive, but I still have the guitar, it's stayed together without self-destructing. And it sounds pretty good too. I still pick it up and play it every so often and still use it sometimes for recording.

Looks wise, it's pretty rough. I built it without a mold and when I got it together discovered it was not very symmetrical. And the finish is not good at all.

But I am now working on my 10th. The guitars sound and look pretty good now.

So, my advise is keep going. Post alot on this forum. There are alot of really helpful and talented people hanging out here.

Neil

Oh, and here is a picture of my first...

Good to know you're not alone, right? There are many of us amateurs here and we all face the same obstacles as we learn. My first looks a lot better than it plays. I have turned it into a kind of practice dummy, which I think is very practical. It's the one I use in my avatar:



My second was turning out great... until I made a mistake in bridge/saddle replacement. Had to remove the bridge and messed up the top a bit in the process. It still looks nice from a few feet away. It's not perfect, but I am very pleased with how it plays and sounds. Here it is:



I'm working on numbers three and four now. So far so good. No one is born an expert at anything. Just keep smiling and having fun.

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George :-)

I'm still on my first with the second guitar started already and the bracing was one of the areas I was also very timid with at first. I purchased a full set of pre-made top and back braces that I used as a template for splitting and carving my own. I don't ever intend to put those pre-made braces on a guitar I'll build, but it sure was nice having them as a reference when making my own first 2 sets. Mine aren't as pretty obviously, but looking back at them side by side I know they are much better than if I'd just tried to use the plans to shape my own first couple of sets.

I'm almost ready to close my first box and start on the neck carving. Now that is one area that I'm really nervous about screwing up, especially when I get to routing my truss rod slot and making the first tenon! I'm out of town till next week, so that process begins weekend after this one. *crosses fingers*

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Bobby Masten

It's a poor workman that blames his tools (mostly joking, but true)...
Most beginners are in too much of a hurry. If you can just learn your tools and sloooow down, you will get it.

Here I am on the right in 1967 playing my first guitar (dig the matching Madras jackets). My previous woodworking experience was making a letter holder, a stool and a birdfeeder.
There was scant info available then, just one or two suppliers and zero specialized tools. My dad was a woodworker and thus had tools and help to offer and my high school shop teacher bandsawed the form for me.
I had a huge advantage over most of today's new builders in that I didn't have a clue about or much exposure to what a good guitar was like. One couldn't even find a Martin in the stores to look at, let alone copy. Thus I blithely continued on undiscouraged until my guitars finally (it took fifteen years or so) got to the point of being respectable.
These days rather than a pep talk, I tell new builders that they should consider building a guitar only if they feel uncomfortable NOT doing so.

I'm on my sixth & seventh instrument and I haven't attended a guitar building course - I can't travel to one because of circumstances (like living far away from such a course.).

I find the wealth of information available on the internet, extremely valuable to my experience - consider that luthiers such as George Lowden began made guitars with no learning resources!



A "home" guitar builder will discover that he has a longer learning curve than someone who attends a course - mainly because he is discovering those mistakes and not being guided around them. I have heard it can take beyond ten guitars before you get some techniques nailed.

Patience is very much required - and also the willingness to recycle/repair previous attempts. My guess is that those great first guitars you see on this forum are in the minority - the majority probably don't even post their first guitars.

*takes deep breath*

You're right of course. I'm going to try something a little different and maybe just play the guitars I already have. That always seems to relax me.

Take the approach of expecting mistakes and difficulties. Resign yourself to the reality that everyone WILL make mistakes and overcome difficulties to produce something as complex as a musical instrument. When you make a mistake, learn from it. Success requires patience. With complex endeavours success requires more patience. It's a virtue to be able to overcome the disappoint of making mistakes and then regroup, rethink, and retry your endeavour.

It's a failure of character to expect too much from yourself and of others. Setting unrealistic goals assumes that one shouldn't have to struggle to achieve good things. You said that you will persevere. That's the ONE character trait, the ONE virtue you need to see this through.

You claimed that virtue and that's the key.

Simply put....you can't fail if you don't quit.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

I would say i fit the description you stated. My only previous woodworking experience would be building the cabinet makers workbench i needed to start work on my guitar. I bought 4 books read through them and picked the cumpiano/natlson book to follow.

While i haven't had any major mishaps (IE ones you cant hide or ones you cant fix) on my first (nearly finished now) there are things i wish i hadn't "settled" for. IE my end graph fit. I had a hard time getting it trimmed just right and had even more problems excavating the channel with exacto saw and chisels. With a bit of tear out i decided the fit was "good enough" and went ahead and glued it up, thinking ill wet it all and maybe some of the little gaps/tear out would fill a bit with every thing swelled up. Lesson learned? don’t settle. If you know the fit isn’t there yet, keep the cap on that glue bottle. now its the one part that i wish i hadn't settle on, now that the gaps are stick shellacked they aren’t so noticeable, luckily. My binding also had one or two small gaps, though roping up binding for the first time isn’t easy as its a timed process.

In any case, I don’t plan on making a perfect instrument in this lifetime so mistakes don’t bother me too much, they are chances to learn and improve, much like every thing you do in life.

I guess I’d say just keep pecking away at it, if you aren’t motivated to do a particular task, don’t, or you will end up settling on how it turns out just to get through the task (and WILL regret it later). I started mine in February of this year, its now Mid September, I decided early on i was going to take my time and learn as much as i could going through the process. And so far i think that it has paid off, i know so much more now am able to pick out my mistakes and on top of that know what i would do differently to fix them.

I just completed my first build. It is an electric, so not so complicated as an acoustic, but difficult enough for a first build. Like comfyfoot, I know where all the mistakes are(and there were many), but I'm very proud of what I accomplished.
I have no woodworking background whatsoever. As for tools, I built it with a jigsaw, hand held router, hand drill, back saw, hand held coping saw, a couple of sharp chisels, files, surform, sanding blocks and a fretting hammer and fret crowning file. I don't really forsee needing many more tools to continue, although I did purchase 3 or 4 hand planes(used; flea market) to aid in thicknessing and joining.
In the future when I am able to control humidity better, acoustics are calling my name. I don't think I'll need much more than what I have already(besides a grammil and one of the hand held rossete/soundhole cutters). And I like the hand tools,and the hand work.
FWIW, I think it's more about the determination and desire to build than about the tools anyway. MHO.
Don't worry about your mistakes. It's much better to resign yourself to finding ways to fix them. Also, know and accept what your "best work" is at whatever stage you're at. The best you can do is the best you can do. Live with it and move on. As long as you keep building, you'll only get better.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.