Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm sure it's been discussed. Infact, I've read a few things and have some ideas to slot the nut cheaply but I'm beginning to think that really expensive files sold through lmi or stewmac might be a necessity. Please say it ain't so!

So I've come to ask what the majority of amateur builders are using. Pros feel free to join in as well!!! Thank you!!!
btw: here it is. My first build! OM from Alex Willis book

The first 2 were done with a set of Nicholson mini-files bought in a package at Home Depot.. It can be done... but it is quite a bit harder to get those slots *Just right*

On #3 and one I did for a buddy -- I used my new LMI nut slotting files... Love them! Never going back to those jeweler's files if I can help it!

I also have some of the Hosco files (Like Stew Mac sells) ... Love them too...

Moral of the story... Purchasing "Real" nut files is money well spent!

Thanks

John

Thanks John! I believe it but it's hard to spend the money. It's so much easier to spend it on beautiful wood Do you think the pippin file sold through lmi would do the job and be something I'd want to keep using? (Description: Our new Swiss-made pippin file is a wonderfully versatile tool for slotting nuts, either bone or synthetic. It is teardrop shaped across its width and tapered along its length, allowing for an almost unlimited number of string diameters. Overall length is 5¼”, cutting length is 3½”, #2 cut)

If you're going to keep on building instruments, get a set of Grobet or Stew-Mac files. They're worth it in every way. No, the pippin file won't do a good job, nor will a set of needle files. You need the dedicated files. Cutting a nut professionally is one of the most precise things luthiers do. A difference of a couple of thousandths actually matters here.

Over time, I've found that it's also important that all of your files be of the same cut and pattern. I had one Stew-Mac double-sided file, a bunch of Grobets, and one from Allied (I think Japanese). The three brands cut at different rates. Made life a LOT more difficult than it needs to be. Recently, I replaced an old (18 years) Grobet. The new one is SO much sharper ... now I have to replace ALL of them! But again, it's worth it to be efficient and precise.

Okay. I'll splurge on a set. Thank you Rick for making that clear, as I do plan on making many more guitars and hopefully some banjos. I'm 24 now so hopefully I have many more years left!
Clearly between what stewmac and LMI has to offer the 8 file set is the best value with thought of future builds and string gauge in mind. It's just under $100 and I was about to place an order with them anyways.

(FISET is a set of 8 files with the following sizes:.056”, .046”, .036”, .032”, .024”, .017”, .013”, .010”. The files are 5 7/8” long and 1/2” wide, with a cutting surface of 4 1/2”. )

If anyone has any other links to a good file set that's a better bang for the buck, feel free to save me some $. Thanks again!

The Pippin file is fine for larger diameter strings. For the thin diameter strings I use a very fine round needle file. It's mostly to do with how you use them. Don't forget that countless hundreds of Violin repairers used nothing but a needle file.

IMHO a "real" set of nut files is the only way to go. It's the best way to get the slots right. Inaccurate slots can cause buzzes, rattles and tuning problems.

The nut slots are Violins are completely different. The nuts are usually Ebony, and the slots aren't as critical since a Violin has no frets. There's also alot less chance of binding due to string bending not being a part of Violin playing.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
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The material a nut is made of is irrelevant, so is the absence of frets. The string still has to fit in the groove in the correct manner. You can be pretty certain that any Violin maker or repairer who works on instruments that are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars isn't going to stand for grooves that are too wide/narrow or of the incorrect heights.
I know a number of Lute makers who use nothing but a needle file, they've been doing so for many,many years. I also know of a few high end Classical Guitar makers who use a needle file. I'm also pretty certain that Kenny Hill uses just a Pippin file. To state that one cannot slot a nut correctly using either a needle file or/and a Pippin file is simply wrong. It may require a little more skill, perhaps it takes more time but it certainly can be done.

Alexander: I used needle files for years and about 5 years ago purchased a set of nut files. I now think I'm in guitar heaven when cutting nut slots. If you plan on continuing to build,do yourself a favour and invest in the nut files. BTW that headplate rosette combination looks super. Keep it up with the good work.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I've been cutting nut slots with needle files for many years and they will get the job done OK. I bought a set of Grobet nut files a little over a year ago and now I can slot a nut a lot faster and they are correctly sized for the string. Wished I'd bought them a long time ago. Worth the extra cost to me.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I did the slots on my 1st 3 guitars with needle files and a zona saw then welding torch cleaners to get the correct width but after getting a set of proper nut files I thought I was in heaven. We are all so cheap in some aspects when it comes to tools, but nut files are worth the expense.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

stewmac all the way for me. effortless! expensive, but they know you need em! and you do by golly.

Last year I bought a set of nut files that are like small saws made by Norman Trent from Texas. They were on ebay. There are nine files in the set with the usual range of sizes most suited for steel string guitars. The files are fast and cut a nicely rounded and smooth-bottom slot. They are half the price of the LMI to STEWMAC files. My only complaint is that these files and all the other sets that I have seen provide a good range for steel strings but not for nylon strings. Those of us who build for nylon could use two or three more file choices.

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GEO
perpetual beginner

I start all my nut slots with one of those Xacto saws, then use a SM set of double sided nut files. They seem to work fine for nylon strings. If you need a little width, rocking them seems to work pretty well for me.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I've been using the same set of needle files for 15 years now. Works for me but it sure sounds like a nice set of nut files would be good too. The one tool I absolutely love now however is the stew-mac nut slotting ruler. It makes the spacing perfectly and fast.

nice git, alex!
buy the files, imo.
money well spent.
a real time saver as well.
if you really don't got the bucks, what i do is i bought the first and third nut files, 13 and 27 (?).
use the first string one for the second string, but turn it sideways, on each side of the slot, check it with a string for fit.
same with the fourth string groove, but with the third string file. then carefully use a tapered fine needle file very carefully for the rest. just stop the file before the diameter gets too big, roll it like a drill bit if it's near the end of the file. wish i had a whole set of nut files.

I used needle files on my first couple, but kept breaking the little round ones off in the slot. The little tapered ones worked pretty well, but getting the bottom of the slot round was getting expensive!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

gotta love that headstock brother! wicked

Are they dull yet? How many nuts have you cut with them?

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

I bought 4 nut files a while ago. Sucks that I have to buy the expensive stuff but I realized that if your slot is a little larger it is no problem, the issue is the nut slot needs to be of the correct shape and the slot should be a few thousandth or larger than the string. So I got a .050, .042, .028, and .016 and basically just used .016 for e and B, .028 for G, .042 for D and A, and .050 for E. It works out just fine even though it may not look the best, and most non luthiers don't know the difference. If you really want precision slots then you could always grind down one side of the file to a slightly smaller size. Also for strings bigger than .050 (like bass strings) what I did was double up the files (.050+.042 combined to make a bass E string) and cleaned up the slot.

I also saw one guitar tech use sections of nut file for nut work, so you can always buy a nut file, break it in half and grind the other one to a slightly smaller size if you needed more size.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I use the "gauged" saws from SM to start the slots, and use their double sided files for rest. I got by with the LMI pippin file and assorted needle files for some years before I got them, but I wish I had gotten the SM ones sooner. The pippin file is a quality file BTW, and actually very nice for rounding the bottoms of larger diameter strings. Oh, and the nut slot ruler from SM sell is worth a lot more than they charge, in my book.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

+1 on the nut slot ruler.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I felt a disturbance in the force and suddenly this link popped up in my browser: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technic ... files.html

Personally, I know knothing of knut kfiles.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
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Ok.. Way back in Post #2 -- I advocated real nut files... I won't lie to you... I love them...

But.. On your 1st build ... you have a few things going against you....
#1 -- Huge $$$ outlay on other tools and wood
#2 -- Not really sure if you will make a real hobby out of it.. even if you finish up Guitar #1

So... Being the cheap sort, I did use those Jeweler's files for 3 guitars worth of nuts and saddles.. Cost -- Around $16.00... And yes -- it did work out JUST FINE... it just took a little longer... Guess what.. If I didn't have the $100.00 to spend on a set of nut files... I would still be using my Nicholson jeweler's files...

So.. Yes, on your Guitar #1 -- either borrow a set of nut files from a local Pro, or buy a set of Nicholson jeweler's files from Home Depot or Lowes... Stay away from the sets of Cheap/junky Asian files sold in discount stores... those things are a wreck -- wavy and curvy, uneven thicknesses, Poorly cut, Improperly hardened, etc...

Honestly.. if you do have the $100.00 to spend, buy a set those Nicholson mini jeweler's files, a set of Pin gages from Enco or a couple sets of high quality feeler gages so that you can do a proper setup..... Then.. Use whatever cash you have left to buy a couple more nuts and saddles and at least 1 more set of strings.... You need a good way to CHECK your setup.. and if you have no gages.. you won't be able to.... And the extra nuts and saddles and strings -- You will ruin a couple nuts and saddles and break a bunch of strings while doing the setup on that 1st guitar.... and nuts and saddles are expensive when you buy them from the local setup guy...

Thanks

John

i Better plan to keep it up as a hobby as I'd like to hone my skills until they're good enough to sell. But I'd say I'm into it neck deep already. I have a figured olivewood set and a sinker redwood top just waiting for the second build. I have a cloudy cocobolo set I couldn't pass up planned for the third. I have access to a ton of tools, being a cabinetmaker for a living. It's these specialty guitar tools that cost alot and so far I've bought all the necessities up to the point I'm at with this first one. I won't skimp as I'm already having so much fun. I know I'll keep going and it's already worth it to have the correct tools.

That link to the tele forum is terrific! The images of slots that different files cut is invaluable.

So I've now come across several other links to forums I never visit but have found since my curiosity was piqued by a few things read in that thread and more brands that I'm hearing about.

I did see a bad review for the brand Hosco but then found out Warmoth sells that brand and it has good reviews from the 3 people that have reviewed. Doing more searches say that they make a pretty good quality file. http://www.warmoth.com/Nut-Files-Set-of-8-P45.aspx

It's all getting very confusing as the (apparently Hosco according to one thread) double sided files with red,blue, and yellow handle look very similar to the Hiroshima (Ibanez?) files through alliedlutherie. Iirc those were the style that I saw a poor review of Hosco on, saying they were not a rounded shape at all, yet the Hiroshimas appear to be one of the best. (Not that I want a double sided anyways. Just curious if anyone has anything more to say about Hosco's quality.

On a major side note. This first guitar is braced pretty heavy. After visiting Joel Stehrs shop and hearing the tap tone of a pro's build and seeing many more examples of bracing since then, i know a little bit more about what to look for when voicing next time. I don't want to overpower the top but I wonder if I should set the guitar up with medium or heavy. I think it could handle the heavy but given that the neck is a set neck design and will NEVER get a neck reset perhaps its best to go medium and keep it safe.