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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:27 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:06 am
Posts: 47
Location: Keller, Texas
I bought the plans a while back, but have not started the build yet. The plan has a diagonal brace that runs from the lower bout up into the upper bout. The lower bout is domed and the upper bout is flat. I have always wondered how the brace transitioned from domed to flat.


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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:16 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Ukiah, CA
I had the good fortune of attending the Guitarada II at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music in 2006. It was a comparison of many great guitars that were at the conservatory or had been loaned by collectors. R. E. Bruné, Pepe Romero and David Tanenbaum took turns playing the instruments. They had a Torres, a Smallman, a guitar by Pepe's son, a Freidrich (sp?), Pepe's Rodriguez and many others. My wife and I had front row center seats not fifteen feet away, so it was a perfect venue to hear the differences in the instruments played by exceptionally talented musicians. I liked the Rodriguez the best. It had more sensitivity and soul than the other guitars. So I got some plans from LMI and when I found some time in my building schedule I built one. I made some changes, italian spruce instead of cedar, 650 scale and a bolt on neck. I suppose if I had been more true to the original it would have been better, but it turned out quite nice with a full sound and pleasing trebles. There is a sound clip here: http://www.franklinguitars.com/Site/Ferdinand.html


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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 8:23 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 2186
Location: Newark, DE
First name: Jim
Last Name: Kirby
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I'm Filippo's second link at the top. I'm sorry that web story petered out in mid build. That particular guitar (my first classical) has a structural problem that is going to require me to go back and take the back off - just never gotten around to it yet. I've built two more following the Rodriguez plan and David's Online Apprentice directions (both have left home), but I'm now pursuing other avenues. I had the opportunity to get the first finished Rodriguez evaluated by the U. Delaware guitar prof, who usually plays a Humphrey Millenium He found the guitar to be very well balanced across the strings, which he was surprised at. He expected the guitar to be very bass heavy due to it's size, but thought that that was not at all the case. The design produces a very well-balanced instrument. (I still have a way to go on high E and B string attack, though, on most everything I've built). He did think that the guitar is simply too big - he played it for me for about 45 minutes and said that he would not be able to play it day after day.

I had the pleasure of hearing Pepe Romero play his Rodriguez just a couple of weeks ago, in Granada. He was playing an Albeniz and Tarrega program (100th anniversary of both their deaths last year). I'm more of a modernist myself and don't gravitate towards that part of the repertoire, but his playing was expressive and a joy to listen to. The venue was a modern hall holding about 400 people, and he played unamplified other than what a stage mike (in front of him but nowhere near him) was picking up. Decades of rock and roll have trained me to want a little more intensity in sound density :lol: , but the guitar came across well by itself in that room.

My only nylon string build that I still have in my possession is a flamenco built following the Reyes/Blackshear GAL plan (Tom Blackshear has really put together some nice plans! [:Y:] ) which I'll bring to John Hall's get-together (see you there, Filippo). Otherwise, I'm building to the GAL Romanillos plan these days, and can't wait to get back into it when I get home in July. I haven't touched a tool in 8 months.

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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:27 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 2186
Location: Newark, DE
First name: Jim
Last Name: Kirby
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Jim,
It will be great to meet you and I'd love to see the plans. I will bring the Hauser which I just completed.

I am concerned about the body size. This is research around a guitar for my father which will want to be in the 0 to 00 body size. So the Rodriguez dimensions I don't have ... where are these guitars larger than normal?

For those that have the OA - how would you compare the later Rodriguez OA CD to the earlier Hauser OA CD? I found the latter useful but also confusing at times, which is just as likely me. Are there other references which are helpful?

Filippo


I'll certainly try to remember to bring them. (Maybe ping me again that week, which will be crazy. We're just getting back in the country on the 13th after the sabbatical in Spain.)

Yes, indeed it is a big guitar. Big plantilla, and deep too. It would not frighten a dred or jumbo player, but it is decidedly not in 0 or 00 range. I don't remember the measurements off-hand, but it is larger (mainly longer and deeper) than the Reyes-style that I have now, and that in turn is large compared to the typical Granada guitar: longer, deeper, wider bouts (both upper and lower.

I don't have the Rodriguez OA CD - David sort of took the course off-line before completion, and I don't know what he did to finish up the CD. The course was pretty clear - I didn't have any trouble following any particular step, and still use his method to set the forward pitch of the neck.

I'm pretty happy with how my Reyes sounds and will be happy to hear others play it and provide feedback (anyone can play it better than me!) It's a little rough cosmetically, though. I was finishing it in a rush in order to bring it to Spain with us.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu


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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:12 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Ukiah, CA
Filippo,

The lower bout is 14 9/16", upper bout 11 1/16" and the depth tapers only slightly from 4 3/16" to 4 1/16". The length is 19 7/16". So it's deeper than most O or 00s but nothing like a dreadnought.

Ken

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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:16 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:50 pm
Posts: 2711
Location: Victoria, BC
First name: John
Last Name: Abercrombie
Status: Amateur
Filippo Morelli wrote:
I am concerned about the body size. This is research around a guitar for my father which will want to be in the 0 to 00 body size. So the Rodriguez dimensions I don't have ... where are these guitars larger than normal?


Though there are certainly differences in size in 'modern' classical guitars, they seem to me to be quite 'undramatic' compared to the steel-string world, so talk of 'dred' vs O and OO is a bit extreme.
I have a couple of guitars I'm building from the Rodriguez plans by Tom Blackshear, but they're not completed, so I can't comment at all on the sound.
Just for reference, and to put things in perspective: (from my plans and templates collection- values approximate)
Romanillos by Aram: Upper bout 268mm, Lower bout 354mm, Body length 480mm
Rodriguez by Blackshear: UB284,LB372, BL 490
Reyes by Blackshear: UB283,LB 373, BL 487
Barbero 1943 by Bill Lewis: UB285, LB372, BL 483

Body depth seems to be less 'carved in stone' - even from a single maker-from what I read, but that is another discussion, I think.

BTW, the Blackshear plans for the Rodriguez are quite nice- the bracing details for the top are quite good, for example. However they are lacking in marked dimensions on the plans themselves. I'm much happier with plans (like the Brune plans I've seen) with lots of written dimensions, so that I'm not trying to pick up an approximate dimension from the paper plan with calipers.
But that may well be 'just me'?
No info on wood species for the plans example are given- is this a cedar or spruce top guitar?
Also, the plans give somewhat confusing, but still helpful ideas about top thickness graduation (without the spruce/cedar info), but no info on back or sides thicknesses.
And there is at least one mistake on the plan- the headstock angle is shown (again, no marked numerical value) as 17 deg but has been corrected in a couple of places online/in interviews by both Tom Blackshear and one of the draftsmen to 14 deg. Why a hand correction could not have been added to the Mylar master, several years after the error was noticed, is a mystery to me.
By the time you buy the plans, the Schramm DVD and scrape up the info you need from GAL publications and the internet, you will have quite an investment in time and money, before you start making shavings.

If you are looking for something in the 'smaller' end of the classical range, probably the Romanillos or one of the Torres guitars might be a better bet.

Cheers
John


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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:32 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:59 pm
Posts: 2103
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Country: Romania
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
A 00 is 365, and OM 380mm, right?
Torres (and Romanillos) are between 350 and 360mm, Bouchet and other not too big "Granada" guitars are about 365. The better known Hauser's, 367 to 370. Most later big concert guitars gravitate around 370-372.

All in all these differences are subtle compared to the variations found in SS, but they still make for very important changes in tone and response.

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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:51 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:44 am
Posts: 2186
Location: Newark, DE
First name: Jim
Last Name: Kirby
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
John, yes, 'dred' is an exaggeration, but nevertheless the Rodriguez guitar is large enough to draw comments about being too large to play comfortably day after day, so for someone who is concerned to find a more compact guitar, it is simply a warning shot. I would look possibly to the Romanillos or Torres plans, as suggested above.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu


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 Post subject: Re: Rodriguez classical?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:04 pm
Posts: 82
First name: David
Last Name: Schramm
State: CA
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
The OA Rod course did finish completely. All the lessons were uploaded. Once I got to the final lesson I left it up for for a little while than I removed the course and put it on cd-rom. During that course I was going through some health challenges and received some nasty emails because I didn't upload some lessons. I got discouraged with the whole OA thing during that time.

I'm adding a OA Gallery of Guitars made by those who used the OA cd-rom's. So if anyone here has some photos along with a short 300 word or less build diary send it to me and I'll feature you on my web site.

Currently working on a lesson on making the covered vee joint. I'm learning how to set that up as an instant digital download. The lattice style guitar OA is postponed.


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