Official Luthiers Forum!

so what is it about brace wood? Is there a way to "see" the runout of the billets or do you just chance it? I have a few billets that I bought and the grain looks very straight but when I test it to split right angle to the grain it has quite a runout. I was able to get the bracing but as I have asked, is there a way to see or know what your getting to reduce waist?

Jerry

Jerry: I've found that it's best to buy bracing stock from folks that sell split billets. You can then resplit or saw directly from the billet with referance to the split side. Have purchased sawn stock from dealers and have been less then happy. Shane from High Mountain sounds like he saws stock the correct way so may be worth a try. He also sells split stock, I think, so he should be able to fix you up.Have a talk to him ,he's a good guy...! Have reread your post,if you are trying to split your billets be sure you have equal wood on either side of the split. If you don't the split most likely won't follow the grain. You may think you have run out when you don't...!Good luck.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Yup! Try Shane. He sent me some split stock earlier this year & it looks good!
His sawn wood is great too & more convenient to use. I understand he saws his bracewood from handsplit stock.

Presently, I'm cutting mine out of old aged European spruce Violin top blanks (sorry violin folks)
I'll "test" the sticks by tossing them on my concrete floor and listenng to the sound they make.
A bright "clink" indicates hard stiff wood, while a soft "clunk" is softer and less stiff.
Of course I try for the best quarter I can reasonably get.

Chris Paulick has a nice tutorial on this forum for splitting bracewood which is quite educational regarding runout, and bracewood - even if you're not thinking of splitting your own, I recommend it.

Reading runout in a piece of spruce can be difficult. Sometimes you can tell by the direction of the "fuzz" on the outside of rough sawn billet, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about the angle of the runout, whether there is twist etc. I don't care where of from whom I got the bracewood, I still split it to make sure I work from a split surface. When you consider the price for bracewood, compared its importance in the structure of the instrument, I hardly think its where you should worry too much about waste.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

for a new guy starting out this is just what I have been looking for. The video and the link to the post from Shane say it all! I split most of my brace wood and I now have the sweetest looking kindling! Well not really I am able to get smaller braces out of some of it and some of it is pretty much well kindling. This guitar building really is addictive!

The "Secret" to choosing good bracewood is to have lots of practice at splitting out bracewood...

You get better at "Reading" the grain on the outside to give you hints at what lies beneath....

Here is 1 way you can get lots of practice on the cheap...

Find a construction dumpster. Rummage around and drag out an armful of dimensional lumber cutoffs -- 2x4's, 2x6's that look suspiciously like spruce Topwood... They probably are Spruce....

Now.. Let them dry out for a couple days in the house, then try splitting them out.... I like to use a cheap, dull kitchen knife or a machete and a leather or wood mallet...

Some of them will split great -- Perfect and straight (Keep these for braces) ... Others will twist and sworl when split... Some show curly, wavy splits, and some split out across the piece on a very short grain.... As I said -- split out a big pile of stuff... and you begin to see patterns....

You will start to notice the wavy grains on the outside... The knots that leave huge waves in the splits, the "Fuzzy" look on 1-side of the board that may indicate huge runout, signs that the board may have significant twist in the grain... etc.

Then, when you are done -- use the giant pile 'o rejects as BBQ lighting fuel... or just "Return" it to the construction dumpster you pulled it out of .... and save the 1 or 2 perfectly straight pieces for brace wood in your next instrument.

Just remember... "Dry" construction lumber runs close to 19% moisture by law.... so you want to let it dry out for a while before using it..

Thanks

John

Hmmm - I can't find it either, Filippo. Glad that Shane's info was useful.

Chris has his tutorial up on Youtube. Here's a link to the first of three parts:

http://www.youtube.com/user/chrispaulic ... UhM71Xsh-k

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George :-)

John I notice in your profile to the left that you are from South Carolina. Do you mind if I ask where? I'm near Charleston.

I am near Clemson -- the other end of the state...

John

Do you have a link for this fella? I have googled him and come up with nothing. thanks.

Joey

thanks a bunch, how many "inches of width" or pounds would I need to complete 1 guitar? I split my own billets out of black spruce, but I don't think I am going to use it. I got a good idea how to do it and it has a nice chime when dropped on the floor, but I think I will go with sitka. I got a decent amount of money tied up in a couple guitars, what's another couple of bucks?

Like David I only use European spruce left over from the violin makers. I buy the wedges left when tops have been cut, truly superb wood. If it's not good enough for a top, it's not good enough for my braces.



Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Black spruce is superb stuff -- just not often used because of lack of availability (Small trees)....

If you have it, and it splits out in nice, straight pieces -- use it.

Thanks

John

I do like to see good vertical grain on my stock. I also sell bracing stock and specialize in red and sitka spruce. I do admit I have seen and heard so terrific guitars that used a mixed bag of grain orientation. Not all bracing used in Martin's were quartered and some of them were killer.
Once you are serious on building you will pick up bracing and what works pretty quickly. I do prefer a good split billet. There are plenty of good suppliers out there.
One part of this equation that isn't being addressed is that the wood should be properly dried. In 10 years of building , this is one thing that you need to be sure of. You can't cut down a tree on Monday and think it will be usable by Friday. Ask your source how dry the wood is. I also don't think air vs Kiln makes much difference , what does is if the cell structure was damaged during curing. Some kilns get too hot too fast and cause cellular damage.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it