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I have a question for all the Classical Builders or those who play/repair CLassicals. Is there an Industry Standard for setting string height at the first fret? I mean is it .025" or .020 - .030 or what? What do the major manufacturers consider the "standard/average" height of the Treble and Bass side at the First fret? I always set up Classicals according to each players desires/needs. But recently had a customer ask me what was industry standard - I looked all over the internet and couldn't find a DEFINITIVE answer. Any help/info is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I don't know what the industry standard is, but I lower mine so that I just barely get a deflection at the first fret, when you press down on the string. On the treble side, it's about the thickness of a piece of standard paper, on the bass side, maybe a piece folded. It's surprising how close you can make it and still not have buzzing.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Thanks For your reply Waddy. That's one of the ways I measure nut/string height as well. I press each string down at the third fret and then measure/view the distance/clearance at the first fret. I also use feeler gauges(in thousandths) and set the "action" at the first fret, to the measured previous height ( or lower if the customer asks) of the original nut string "action", depending on the type of instrument (electric, steel string, classical) as well as players attack and style of play. Steel Strings higher than Electrics and Classicals higher than Steel Strings.

What I was looking for was some one who builds Classicals regularly to say " Well...Ramirez sets their first string, first fret height to a standard of .025" " or whatever it may be. OR if there is a common height found among most/all manufacturers of Classicals then whatever that "height" is.

I sure do THANK YOU for taking the time to respond. It is greatly appreciated.

Dave

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I didn't say it, but I check it with the string depressed at the second fret, too. Check out Kenny Hill's site. Somewhere on there, he has a page on classical guitar set-up that, as I recall, is pretty good. He gives some measurements.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I go for what Waddy said too. But some players that have a heavy hand will benefit from more space with the bass. Others like a little more feedback when pressing trebles, so you might end up using more space. Another issue to consider is back buzzing with a no-relief very flat neck.

Other than this, if there really is an industry standard out there, it must be bad as most of the factory classicals I played had tall horrible nuts

Edit: I checked my own guitar and it is less than 1 paper for both Es, (3rd fret pressed) however this is not a heavy-hand-setup.

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Build log

I check that the height of the strings at the first is about equal to the height of the string at the second when fretted at the first.

I do it by feel, I really should work out a way to be more precise about this.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
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From the article by Kenny Hill:
"The nut adjustment is important. If the nut is even just a little too high it creates extra tension in first position, and that can add a lot to the struggle of playing, not to mention its affect on intonation. If the nut slot is cut too low, the open string will buzz, and that buzz will go away when the string is fretted.
A feeler gauge is an easy way to ensure the nut slots are cut to the proper depth.

Nut adjustment is easy – measure it with feeler gauges. Strings 1 and 2 are set at .052” above the fingerboard, 3 and 4 are .054”, and 5 and 6 are .056”. This assumes a standard fret wire of .045” (?) high. If the first fret is lower or higher due to wear or design, these specs can be adjusted accordingly. Use a nut file to cut the slot down to the level of the feeler gauge. The slot should be filed back at the same angle as the guitar head. This gives a well-defined end to the string at the front face of the nut."

The whole article can be found at:
http://www.hillguitar.com/website/news/articles/classical_guitar_setup.html

For some reason it took a couple of tries with search to find the article, but it is there.
Thanks to Kenny Hill, and to Waddy for pointing me/us toward the article.

Cheers
John

The only thing to be aware of, is that Kenny's numbers are dependent on the fretwire he uses. If you use a taller wire, those numbers change.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Just remember if the nut is cut to low on the wound strings a back buzz can occur.
In recording situations it can be a real problem.

Mike

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Mike Collins

I'm in the fret behind 3rd and check the clearance at the 1st fret camp.
Using the measured clearances over the 1st fret with the string open method is affected by the saddle height.
I had a flamenco brought to me the other day which had the nut slots cut way too low, but it still played cleanly cause the 12th fret string height was excessive. If I had lowered the saddle(which I could not cause it was already too low) it would have been buzzing on the open strings

Good point. Agreed.
That's the good feature of the method described by Hill- the feeler gauge is right on the fingerboard at the nut, so the action (assuming there are strings on the guitar) doesn't matter.
If you have some 'sacrificial' feeler gauges you can just lay the gauge on the FB and file until the file hits the gauge (you can tell instantly by the sound change).

Cheers
John

I get better results when I work from a pencil line drawn on the front of the nut (not saying it's better, just works better for me). I also prefer the string height scheme that Richard Brune mentions in "American Lutherie" #79: progressively more clearance for strings 1-3, then dropping back down on 4, and rising again to 6.