Official Luthiers Forum!

Is Lee Valley's bottled French Polish/ Padding Lacquer suitable for finishing a guitar?
Does it dry hard enough?
Has anyone used it?

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff, have never tried the Lee Valley material, their stuff is usually pretty good though.

I just finished my first complete shellac/French polish guitar with a new material (new
to me anyway) from LMI, their Hard Shellac from Australia. I cut it to a 1lb cut and it
seems to apply nicely, the guitar is a single 0 size and I used so little of the material
that the bottle looks nearly as full as when I started, a little seems to go a long way.
The finish is hard, more resistant to water than standard shellac and can be safely put in a case 13 days after the last finish application and spiriting off. I was able to get a good
gloss with just spiriting off and a little Mequires #7, no buffing needed thought this material
could be wet sanded and buffed. I would still we sand with oil, it seems to be the best way
to sand it.

Bruce

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Bruce Herrmann
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."

Not to be nosy, but Bruce Herrmann is a name of a gentleman I've done business with in the St Louis area in another industry, you wouldn't happen to be him would you?

_________________
Bobby Masten

Jeff-
I bought some of that LV French Polish a few years ago- It was actually Behlen's Qualasole Padding Lacquer (the Behlens label was under the LV label).
If you search on Qualasole you should find some info.


(I never did try to finish a complete guitar with it.)

Cheers
John

Unfortunately LMI can't ship their Hard Shellac to Canada, which is where I am.

Hi Jeff....That stuff is pure garbage...I used almost half a bottle on a guitar before I realized that it was useless....Buy yourself some Shellac flakes,a bottle of Methyl Hydrate ,a bottle of baby oil...learn how to make the proper mixtures and you are ready to go.....Larry

Thanks for all your replies.
I looked up Qualasole and it looks like it is diluted nitrocellulose.
I guess I will have to get some flakes and mix up some shellac.

Jeff

Jeff-
I get my shellac, dyes, and abrasives from
https://www.woodessence.com/Dry-Shellac-P54C13.aspx
in Saskatchewan.
Good people to deal with, and very reasonable shipping charges.
(Also a good source for info and quality spray guns).

LeeValley does carry orange shellac flakes, if you are in a hurry.

Cheers
John

Jeff-
If you check the Qualasole MSDS sheet
http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD20000090AB.pdf
I think you will find that it is a shellac mixture:
1-10% shellac
1-10% linseed oil
Up to 70% ethanol
Other solvents.

I didn't see any nitrocellulose or other lacquers listed in the MSDS.

However, shellac flakes and the rest of the stuff for 'French Polish' will give you more control than just using some premixed solution.
My advice would be to make up some test panels and do a lot of finishing before starting on your guitar. It can be tricky, especially working on your own.

Cheers
John

Bobby, never been to St. Louis but there can't be too many Herrmann's out there with the same first name, have
only run into one or two...

I've always mixed my own shellac and still do from time to time, this LMI Hard Shellac is mixed well, I have to say.
The Zinzler product was the closest you could get to a pre-mixed shellac that would work. This Hard Shellac
is much nicer to work with IMHO. The problem is color and many times with shellac you want to take advantage of
the various color flakes out there, then there's not much choice but to mix up your own. I am getting concerned
about the hardware alcohols so will stay with my Everclear from here on out. Just something about the contents
of the alcohols that you get at Home Depot etc. that seems hard on my lungs. Of course, use nitrile gloves for
all of these procedures, no need to expose yourself to more than we already deal with.

_________________
Bruce Herrmann
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."

http://www.behlen.co.uk/safety/B611-0001.pdf

I found a different msds sheet on the Behlen website which lists nitrocellulose. But it appears to be from 2001 whereas the one John pointed to is from 2007. So it would appear that Behlen must have changed the product formula at some point.


Jeff

Pretty confusing- that MSDS on the Behlen.uk site even spells it as Qualsole, and the product # doesn't appear in the US Behlen catalog.


John

Is the Zinnser premixed french polish still available?
I got some a couple of years ago, but can't find in anymore.

We can get it here in UK, so I think so, unless we are just using up old stock.
I certainly hope they continue to make it - it's very handy.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Hi Chris, just to help you out, french polish is not a finishing material (contrary to popular belief by many manufacturers) but rather it is the method in which to apply the finish (usually shellac).

Yes, Zinsser does make a premixed shellac, actually they make two. One is 100% wax free and that is labeled Zinssers seal coat universal sanding sealer



The other product that you WANT TO AVOID is the Bulls eye shellac Traditional Finish & Sealer. This is not wax free stuff.

I've used the seal coat universal sanding sealer for many of my guitars for sealing as well as the finish on one guitar by the french polish method. This shellac gets decently hard, can be wiped on, brushed on, sprayed on or french polished. It sands very easily when cured (leave for 10+ days is best).

The nice thing with this stuff is that you can get it from most paint stores. Home Depot does not carry the universal sanding sealer (at least the ones near me don't) so go look at Cloverdale paints of what ever other paint specific store are near you.

Cleans up with methal hydrate. You can cut the weight of it with MH too.

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Can it be cut with something else ? Like Everclear ?

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Yes - I've done it and it works fine. IIRC Zinsser comes as a 2 lb cut and I use a 1 lb cut for FP.

The hard shellac from LMI has been used by some of the guys on the ANZLF forum and you may want to check there for their results..... It was not good IIRC.

Also when this product was being promoted on the OLF some years back the owner of the company would not let us know what his ingredients were saying that some of the mix was proprietary. All I wanted to know was if it could be safely handled and used the same way as say Zinnser so I asked the guy that too and he could not answer this question either.... As such and not knowing exactly what I may be introducing to my shop, lungs, and skin I never used the two bottles that I had.

Maybe it's changed now since some time has passed and perhaps the formula has changed too but these were the red flags that I had at the time of this product's introduction. As always YMMV

I called stores around Toronto for Zinsser Seal Coat, the wax free stuff, but didn't find anyone who had it. I guess there is not a lot of demand for it. So I ordered some Super Blonde shellac flakes from Wood Essence. It's probably a good idea to learn how to mix it because it's another part of the craft.

I've used the Lee Valley mix with acceptable results.

I haven't used self mixed shellac from flakes so I cannot say how it compares. My expectations for a good finish continue to go up, so my frustrations go hand in hand with my expectations. I can't really tell if my frustrations are the result of the material or my technique.

I do intend to start using flakes pretty soon. We'll see then.

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I use teh LV stuff for a few things . handy because it never goes bad, at least not inthe time i use the whole bottle. great for esealing rosettes and binding ledges prior to CA application .. I also use it as a sealer on tops beofre shooting lacquer, helps keep the fuzzies down on the initial coats.

I have done one neck with it as well .. on my current house beater, my #5 ... its been on there for about 2.5 years, and feels great. Not as good as other true french polishes I have seen, but I am no expert in applying the stuff either .. just wiped on and burnished ...

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"