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So im at the point in my building that I am ready to glue the back on, and am wondering how the best way to do it is. I have seen a few methods used and was wondering if maybe there were a few more options I am unaware of, or if maybe someone has some experience with these different methods that could give advice.

The methods that I know of are:
1. go-bar deck (I dont have one and dont have room or money for one so this is out)
2. Spool clamps (only seen this a few times, dunno how well it works)
3. the inner tube method (this is what is in Cumpiano's book and its the method I suspect ill end up needing to use)
4. rope instead of inner tubes (seems like something stretchy would work better but what do I know? not much! hehe)

I don't have a mold either btw.... anyone have any other suggestions?
TIA!

I have used all four methods you listed. Now that I have a good go-bar deck set up, I wouldn't do it any other way.
Go bars are most practical if you use forms & radius dishes.
I strongly recommend using a full sized protective cover (I use foamcore with door skin plywood taped around the edges) to prevent divots. A slipped go bar onto a softwood soundboard can spoil your day.
If you use foamcore as I mentioned, you need to cut a slit almost full length on the centre line & several slits across, so it will conform to the arch of the top & back.

I use the gobar method as well and would highly recommend it. They're reasonably cheap to make and you could always break it down after you're finished using it.

If you don't want to invest in the fiberglass rods, you could also use wood. I'm sure there are some people on here who use wood that could tip you off on what dimensions and type to use.

What I like about the go bar deck is you can easily position your top or back and alter its position if needed. The go bars apply pressure in the percise spots that you want them plus you can use the go bar for gluing braces as well.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I use my go bar deck. Robbie O Brian has an excellent video showing several different methods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap601ewmI3c

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I've been using my radius dishes and it works great. Here's a shot of a top being glued on. Just set the dish on, throw on a few clamps and your done.

Baldrick (feels a bit disrespectful calling your Baldrick - got a first name that we can use please? Is it Rick?) I know that you kind of ruled out a go-bar deck citing economics but the beauty of the go-bar deck concept is that a go-bar deck need not cost anything if we are creative enough.

The concept is believed to have originated a couple thousand years ago when folks used caves with a low roof and sticks several inches longer than the height of the cave. The sticks were slightly bent so that they deflect and there you have it - downward clamping force.

Today builders may just simply install some plywood above their bench and enlist some sticks or fiberglass driveway markers and Bob's your uncle and you have a go-bar deck.

They are invaluable for guitar building and if space is an issue mine is on a slide and swivel originally made for TV's in hotel rooms and this lets my go-bar deck slide out of the way into a corner when not in use and slide out for easy access and swivel too for even easier access when cleaning up glue squeeze-out.

I think that you will be hard pressed to find a more versatile AND inexpensive method of clamping (other than some BFRs (big freaking rocks...)) ( <=== note the nested loop.... ) than a go-bar deck.

I like the method Haans showed above and did that on my last one and it worked well. I used a thin layer of cork between the dish and the perimeter of the body so it wasn't putting pressure out in the middle. I'm guessing you're not using radius dishes if you're not using go-bars, though. You can use tape to attach the back and sides, I've used Stewmac's brown tape for that before. Tape's going to be a challenge if you have to much force to fit the top/back to the rim.

The challenge with using any method without a mold is going to be keeping everything square while you do it.

Just for grins, this is how they do it at Lowden. That's a bicycle innertube stapled to a board with fabric.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Evey single method that you have listed will work, it just comes down to the method that you feel comfortable with. I apply HHG around the rim and use spool clamps and a warm iron to reconstitute the glue. I initially use a few strips of masking tape to make sure that it all lines up.

Started off with go bars. Won't do that again unless absolutly have to. Just don't like them, though work well (for others). I bought a bunch of spools or curtain rod ends and 1/4" carriage bolts worked really well.

Went to Bourgeois and used a press system. Great and have one but not use it now.

At Moll's used go bars, but had cauls for cam clamps and that is what I do now in own shop.

I use the Stew Mac little cam clamps. Cauls easy to cut out and put away. With the press and cam clamps I do both top and back at the same time. One thing do is put a very small brad nail in the neck and tail blocks as indexing pins so plates don't slip. Neck is covered by tounge extention and left at tail is easly filled and not seen.

Started off with go bars. Won't do that again unless absolutly have to. Just don't like them, though work well (for others). I bought a bunch of spools or curtain rod ends and 1/4" carriage bolts worked really well.

Went to Bourgeois and used a press system. Great and have one but not use it now.

At Moll's used go bars, but had cauls for cam clamps and that is what I do now in own shop.

I use the Stew Mac little cam clamps. Cauls easy to cut out and put away. With the press and cam clamps I do both top and back at the same time. One thing do is put a very small brad nail in the neck and tail blocks as indexing pins so plates don't slip. Neck is covered by tounge extention and left at tail is easly filled and not seen.

I use cam clamp around the rims, no radius dishes needed. The only problem is that you need quite a few. But, it was a good excuse to go buy them

Richard

Another vote for Go bar deck. And extremely cheap to build if you have a mind to do it. All materials available at any hardware store.

My version uses the relevant radius dish as the base - and a caul on the top - the 'divot" issue is a real one - need protection for the top when pressing with the go bars.

Also, use eye protection when setting up those go bars - when they slip, it's a bit like a very efficient slingshot!

I personally used the inner tube, I was limited on space and money and had no mold. I used 2 clamps to hold it in place at the head and tail and wrapped it in inner tube, it worked quite well.

Go Bar method is quick and easy, my deck is made from 2 24" square pcs. 3/4 baltic birch ply, 4 threaded rods, 8 nuts, 8 washers and 4 thread inserts in the base. Use 1/2 " or larger threaded rods as the larger the better, my selection was controlled by the largest inserts or T nuts available. The nice thing is this deck is adjustable and the top does not need to be parallel with the base which is necessary for closing the box, as my go bars are the same length. It looks kind of strange when I use it on a wedge body as there it 2 angles involved. I bought some of the 3/16 rods but I also use some wood slats as one never has enough bars.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Actually, I've used the BFR system (not rocks but cans of paint and the like) on occasion !!. Works fine.
A radius dish or a caul shaped to match the edge of the plate with some weights does the trick. The caul can be styrofoam around the edges with a flat (stout) plywood 'lid'.- whatever works as long as it clears the arch of the plate.
As everybody has pointed out, it is essential when using any method to make sure that the pressure is applied just to the edges of the plate, in line with the sides. Be particularly careful if you are using tape or rubber bands , as you can break off overhanging sections of the top/back.

The most important thing is to have a good gluing surface with the linings properly fitted and levelled, and enough clearance for the braces through the sides (if applicable). The top/back are pretty flexible and should be easy to get into good contact.
As Stan has pointed out, good alignment is critical. Decent pencil marks and correct size cutouts for the braces (on a SS) will do the job.
Cheers
John

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys I really appreciate it. The space issue is really a tough one for me. I live in a small apartment with my workbench in the middle of a short hallway with some plastic underneath in an attempt to protect the carpet. I really dont think I have room for a go-bar deck. Although maybe one that can come apart might work ok.....or maybe I could even install the rods right into my workbench with a few holes drilled into it... then all I would need is a top... what works best for cheap bars?

I don't really have a radius dish either, its more of a piece of plywood with some carpet on top with a bit of cardboard cut out in the middle to allow the middle of the guitar to sag a bit. Well ok I guess its a radius dish in the loosest sense of the word hehe.

The back fits really nicely except right at the waist where I probably shaved a tad too much off the sides. That's the only place that's going to need a little extra clamping pressure. I like the idea of using cam clamps, but I only have 4. Don't really wanna buy 4 more right now (stupid speeding ticket!)

Hrm.... I'm starting to like the idea of drilling some holes into my workbench and threading a few long bars into it then into something else at the top. That way I could take it down easily when its not in use. One issue though is that since it would be far away from at least one two edges of the bench, clamps would not be possible from all sides. Hrmmm

Oh and Hesh, Baldrick is just a name I use on the interwebz Its from the Black Adder TV series that I enjoy. Real name is Matt. Just not used to using my real name in forums heh.

In that case I'd suggest using turnips to close the box

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Excellent!! haha. A few really big ones should work well.

fellow low-budget, space-challenged builder here.

my workspace is about 2' x 10'. it has a binding jig, a drill press, a belt sander, and all my wood, molds, jigs and tools on it. it hasn't been ideal but it has worked. i often have to clear stuff off, in order to do anything.

i bought an inner tube for $4 not long ago, and cut a long 1" strip by using a scissors and cutting it in a long spiral. it works ok. in my opinion, the go bar deck is better.

for go bars, I use SPF 2"x2"s. 98 cents at menard's. rip on a table saw to whatever dimensions you like. maybe 1/4" x 3/4" should work, but ymmv.

my work bench is in the basement of my house. the top of the bench is about 36" from the ceiling, which has an i-beam running thru it. so I don't use a "deck", i just put my go bars under the i-beam.



my radiused dish cost $7 (the price of a 2'x4' sheet of mdf). I made it with a jig-sled thing, there's a thread about it in the archived discussions at mimf.com. and a friend gave me the sandpaper. it's 150 grit but it was free.

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

You might be able to use the bottom of kitchen cabinets and the base cabinets as a gobar deck. Depending on what your kitchen table looks like you could use it if you can attach a piece of plywood to the legs as a base and use the bottom of the table as the deck ceiling. Attach some ply above the table if need be. Might be a pain but might get you through. Outside maybe?
I glue my back and top on face down so I don't worry about cauls so much. But I kinda like how Fox is using a dish with a vacuum hooked up to it as a caul and the vacuum keeps the arch in the back.

Fred,
how do those 3/16" fiberglass rods work for you? I have the 1/4 rods and they feel pretty stiff and scary so I try not to bend to the point of them flying off. Are the 3/16's ok in your opinion?

Filippo,
Where do you find inner tubes these days? I think a bicycle tube wouldn't be large enough, auto inner tubes, well I haven't seen one in years and truck tubes are way too thick.
I went to the local rubber and gasket store and bought about 50 or 60 ft of 3/32 or 1/8" x 1-1/2" neoprene rubber for I don't know how much more but it didn't break me.
The rubber roping system as described by Cumpiano works very well I think.
BTW neoprene rubber can be spliced together great with CA. I had to go back for more.

René

Been doing it this way since 1970. Works for me. YMMV.

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Hank Mauel

Matt thanks for the name.

Regardless of knowing in advance that you had ruled out a go-bar deck for stated reasons of the expense and space requirement I brought it up anyway because using go-bars need not cost a thing... My example of the cave and sticks was toward this end.

Anywhere where you have a counter surface already and a ceiling with the addition of some sticks of some kind and you now have the basic set-up for a go-bar deck.

When I built my shop and had to install pressure treated boards on a concrete floor with Liquid Nails I used the ceiling and wedged 2 X 4's as go bars to clamp the boards until the LN dried and I was able to get to the store and purchase more concrete nails and pound a few of them in too.

So forget about a physical deck and use that turnip to think of a creative way to use the idea of go-bars and get your plates attached. I still bet it can be done at no cost and without taking up any space permanently.

I will be using spool clamps for #1 as they were the cheapest method I could get which I knew worked well for my style of working. I will use spool clamps for a while until I get around to building something like a go-bar deck.

On a side note as to not start a new thread, go bars are not sold here in the UK (and if they are only on eBay very, very rarely), what can be used in place? I have seen wooden rods used, if so what wood & dimensions? What other materials or day to day products can be used?

Peter in home improvement stores in the States we have fiberglass driveway markers, often reflective, that can be used as go-bars.

Also kite supply houses (stunt kites) sell fiberglass rods too and are very inexpensive here also.