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Hi! I'm in the finishing stages of my first scratch build(solidbody electric). It is poplar. I originally stained the wood with minwax red mahogany stain, but IMO it turned out too splotchy, so I sanded back to bare wood. I have read here and on a couple of other forums that I can apply a coat or two of shellac before staining and that this will help get a more even stain in soft woods such as the poplar I'm using. I have sprayed two light coats of shellac and am waiting on it to dry. My question is this: After it dries, should I sand the shellac smooth before applying stain,or will it matter? I plan to hit it with 3-4 coats of shellac as a sanding sealer after staining to the desired shade, and sand that smooth before laying on my final coats of lacquer. Does this sound correct? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Mike-
I usually think of 'stain' as something that goes on the wood and 'tints' or 'dyes' as something I add to finish.
Some experienced finisher will no doubt be along in a minute to 'set me straight' on this!
If it were my job, I'd think about adding (transparent) color to the lacquer. You can also add (transparent)color to shellac.
A lot of the stains (I'm not 100% sure about the Minwax) contain opaque pigments that really add a 'cloudy' look to the result.

I've used ColorFX; it's a good product.
https://www.woodessence.com/ColorFX-Dye-Concentrates-C12.aspx

I'm usually 'over-eager' to get the finishing done once I get to that point with a guitar build- it's not a wise tendency!
My advice (the result of some bad experiences!):Do plenty of experiments on scrap if possible and get it 'just right' before you do much to the guitar, unless you are using a combo that's worked for you in the past.
A few dollars worth of 'wasted' finishing products are worth it, if it avoids looking at something 'not quite right' for years.
Cheers
John

Thanks for the reply, John. It's appreciated. I'm using aerosol lacquer, so tinting it is not an option, unless I want to spent the $10 a can for StewMac stuff. I'm using Deft lacquer.It's available locally and it's "cost effective", lol. I've used this stain before on alder with good results, but I had no issues with splotchiness on that one. I've answered my own question regarding sanding, since I see since the shellac has dried there are a couple of rough spots, as well as some slightly dry areas on the sides of the instrument. I'll hit the sides a little bit more tomorrow, then sand and see what I have. If all is good I'll move on to stain.



I'm guilty of that as well. This is not my first finishing job, but it's the first time using shellac as a sealer instead of sanding sealer. I don't like the softness of the sanding sealer, nor it's waxy feel. I also have never sealed before applying stain, so I guess I'll just have to "feel this one out" as I go. I'm certain it'll have some flaws in it, since I've been working on this thing for over a year and am getting to the point where I just want to finish and take what I've learned and move on to the next build. I'll do my best to hold back on that instinct.
Thanks again.

_________________
Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

One thing I've used for spraying is a Preval spray set - it's an aerosol propellant can with a bottle that screws to the bottom.
http://www.preval.com/what-is-preval
You can spray your own mix- shellac, (though it runs easily for me) or lacquer with tint.
It gets expensive buying the propellant cans, but if you want to play with tints and lacquer, a hint of 'burst' or whatever, it is a way to do it without a compressor and gun.
(Still need to protect yourself with a decent mask, though - and don't spray in the house!)

Cheers
John

Thanks again, John. I'm aware of the preval and will probably end up going with that in the future, for the reasons you mention as well as the fact that I can use a better quality of lacquer that doesn't have all the additives and such that's common with the aerosol stuff. It does look like it could get pricey, though. Especially considering the cost of the tints and dyes and the fact that the learning curve would probably end up causing me to use a lot of tints and dyes getting the shades right. But I'd go through that even if I were to set up a compressor unit, which is not a possibility in the forseeable future. So the preval looks like my best option. Right now, I'm just trying to get my first one done in a way I can be at least a little proud of. I think I did pretty good construction-wise, even despite the mistakes, which were many. When I get done with this one, my next goal will be to refine the design(got some ideas on that), and build with some nicer woods. Ones that don't require a stain. Looking forward to that. Thanks again.

_________________
Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Mike-
Even quite plain woods can take on a nice aged look after a little while; I'm sure your guitar will look just fine.
Cheers
John
PS- those tints are expensive, but they are REALLY concentrated, so last quite a bit longer than you might think.
(When I die, I'll pass on the leftovers to somebody else!)

_________________
Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Well, I tried it out. Did not like the results. The shellac prevented the stain from penetrating to that deep, dark color I was looking for. Yes, I tried several applications(about 5). Since I wanted the stain to cover the greenish streaks in the poplar I am using for the body, and since it did so on my first attempt, although slightly splotchy, I sanded back to bare wood and tried again. The guitar looked even worse. I think part of the reason for this is that I did not get the shellac off in certain areas. It looked like I did, but the way the stain was absorbed makes it clear that I did not. However, I cannot sand it back again. The 1/4" jack for the electronics is located on the side of the guitar, and if I sand much more I'll end up breaking through this hole from the top. Oh well, it was originally going to be a solid color anyway, so solid it will be. I've learned a couple of things from this. There really is a point called good enough/leave well enough alone. It originally looked pretty good, I just wanted to do better. Little did I know that where I was was the limit of my ability at this time. Now I know. Pressing on!

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Hmm, perhaps your adventure can help me out with something. Specifically, how deep does the minwax stain penetrate? Can you sand down a small amount before the color starts to weaken significantly?

My end goal is to find a green material to use in inlays for vines and plants. I have some 1/42 inch thick curly maple veneer that would be great if I could stain it all the way through. And if you had to sand down far enough to almost go through the body, that stuff might be just the trick. Especially soaking in from both sides of the veneer.

Oh, and is that water based or oil based stain?

It's an oil base, and if you submerged it in the stain it might do what your talking about, depending how long you let it soak, but my instincts say probably not. But it's definitely worth a try. The stain penetrated quite a lot on my guitar, but mine was a soft wood(poplar) as compared to maple, so you might not get that kind of penetration. The stain is cheap, so you can't lose much by trying.

_________________
Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

It takes me 4 hours to hand block sand a guitar body going thru grits from 80 to 320. If I don't do this, the stain or finish looks uneven. I enjoy this preparation step. It is very rewarding in the end. Stain then shellac then lacquer and DON'T sand through! Am I nuts or what!?!?
Michael