Official Luthiers Forum!

Have you ever had a client ask you to build an ugly guitar? What did you do?

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

Describe ugly..

I used to live a block from the origianl Dean guitar factory in Chicago. I think the staff was Dean and one buddy. They built custom guitars for rockers. I would think any of these guitars could be ugly, but they sold the name for millions.

an all mahogany OM guitar, stained really dark brown (almost black), all over. satin finish. white plastic binding. no rosette. no heel cap. ebony bridge, fingerboard and faceplate. and these tuners: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... =3&xsr=123

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

Black knobs aswell?
Yikes it sure does sound a bit of a plain jane
charge them more for the pain!

Sounds kinda cool to me, except the no rosette part, which I have never been much for in most instances.
Its all a matter of opinion. Customer comes first anyway right?

Sounds appealing to me, except for the binding and heel cap -I'd use tortoise celluloid-, and a 1 ring rosette. actually I just finished an all-koa guitar very similar to that.
Tastes vary…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Just tell them beauty is standard.
Ugly is an upcharge.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve, we must have posted at the same time: this is hilarious!

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Seconded! Brilliant.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

You might want to inform the purpose of a sound hole rosette and binding......it's not purely cosmetic.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

If I wouldn't be proud to have my name on the headstock, I won't build it. It's a no-brainer for me.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I agree with Howard. And it's not just appearance -- there should be a reasonable "fit" between builder and player about tone, expectations, and even vocabulary. I've done decoration that I didn't like, just as I've made guitars with tonal properties very different from my personal preferences. As long as I felt that the result reflected my best craftsmanship, all is good.

But -- I've turned down commissions when it became clear that what I do and what the customer wanted were just too different. The classic is, of course, when the customer says, "It's all about the sound, that's all that matters. Now let's talk about the inlays and rosette!" And many of my most successful instruments were those I made for players whose style and taste -- and even ways of communicating -- were closest to mine. I suspect that when I really like a player, I unconsciously put a little more into the guitar.

Is the owner as ugly as the guitar? If he is you probably shouldn't charge him any more. The match is too good. There is an artform and a synergy happening. We have to respect this. If, however, he is not this ugly and still wants this guitar then we are no longer in Kansas. Something is very wrong. He probably needs finishing school at the very least and you need to charge more. Does this help?

Seriously, though, I think Rick makes a great point. If you are too far outside your own comfort zone the instrument will suffer. Of course, finances figure here, I'm sure. One has to weigh all considerations. You also might (with discretion) be able to work with his taste a little bit and make some headway on aesthetics. Good luck.

Lack of rosette notwithstanding, this could be a very subtly elegant guitar. Look at Santa Cruz's new "1929" models and maybe take a few cues from them. Maybe try suggesting mahogany bindings instead of plastic...

Lack of rosette notwithstanding, this could be a very subtly elegant guitar. Look at Santa Cruz's new "1929" models and maybe take a few cues from them. Maybe try suggesting mahogany bindings instead of plastic...

I'm building an all-walnut resonator for a guy right now, and he's talking about purpleheart for the fretboard and binding. Personally I think that's gonna be fugly as heck, but he's the customer and it'll be his guitar. I try to steer them in a way I find aesthetically pleasing but I build the ones I love the same way I build the ones I don't love....as much.

PS, I'm with you Loren, I love 'olde skool' guitars.

... I love 'olde skool' guitars
I know you do, Mike.

For God's sake, talk him out of the purpleheart or at least pre-oxidize it!

I've had people ask for crazy inlays,ugly headstocks,etc.. I won't put my name in a guitar I don't design. I must say no,politely. People who ask for dumb stuff usually haven't the esthetic sense or the training to make such requests.

If you give in,your name is in that guitar forever,and it might make YOU look bad!

I think it sounds kind of cool if you change the binding to black and do at least a simple rosette, even just a single black line. Even better with a slotted headstock. I've got a couple old 30's or 40's parlor guitars like that and I like the look.

Most people are terrible at explaining things. You might try to get him to explain what he's shooting for overall instead of spec'ing all the individual details, get the big picture. Then you can work with him and steer him in the right direction and make him think it's his idea. If he tells you he wants it to look like a fudgesicle, then you can maybe decline. But maybe he's seen some old timey guitar and wants something similar.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if you can build what a person wants and stick to your standards, thats the mark of a good craftsman.

Tim

Martin my friend I am usually not very thrilled to even talk about doing commission work for exactly this reason. If I had to continue to build a guitar that I thought was butt ugly I would refund the deposit and burn the thing...

Not wanting to have your name on an ugly Betty is a smart play.

I talk to a lot of builders in the course of a week and it always amazes me that it seems that newer builders and this includes me seem to be magnets for the one-offs and odd-ball commission requests.... People want us to build the 9 strings, no sound hole, what ever.... that they envision and since we are newer builders they want it for free too.....

So when ever I hear of a weird request I always wonder who has turned them down before they got to me....

I agree, you should get into the client's head a little and find out what they want, not just what parts they want used. It could be that their parts list is either finance driven, or they just don't have any idea that they can get so much more from a good builder...without much pain or money. Educate the client about their options and understand their wants/needs. I'm betting they just don't know what you can do for them.



I am always game for trying new things but make it VERY clear that they are paying an amateur's price for an amateur's work. I will wax poetic with them about how wonderful the work is on the higher end instruments (i.e. most everyone else's but mine... ). I try to keep them thinking in perspective...the true craftsmen(women) may charge a ton, but you totally get what you pay for!

That said, I have also found that doing high expectation builds tend to mess with my chi too much and the quality and workmanship goes down hill from there. They always sound great, but the finish may have issue, etc. Maybe some day I'll even like one enough to post pics!

That doesn't sound ugly, but I agree, got to use a different binding.

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Always remember you are unique......just like everyone else.

Billy and Dusty's fake fur covered Explorers meet my criteria for ugly. I remember when I first saw those pictures I wondered how Gibson could sign off on such a thing.

forums.gibson.com/ default.aspx?g=posts&t=6232

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia