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Hi all,

I'm on my first build and have come across an early conundrum, due to my total novice woodworking status. Do you make a diagonal cut with a rip saw or a cross-cut saw? I want to buy a new Japanese saw but don't know which to get!

Thanks for your help and sorry for asking such a basic question...

Sean

Thanks for that Todd. Which do you think is best for the scarf joint on the neck, at about 15 degrees?
Sean

I have hand-cut 3 scarfs with a cheap $22.00 BORG Vaughn Bear Saw. (2-sided pull saw)

You will find that there is a significant learning curve to the technique of getting a saw to cut straight, true, and where you want it to cut...

I wouldn't suggest starting out with a massively expensive Japanese saw to ding, bend, and dull on a staple or by rubbing it on a clamp... Start with a $20.00 Home Depot or Lowes whatever-brand double-sided pull saw... Ruin that one learning the technique of how to get the saw to cooperate... then step up to the $50.00 Japanese pull saw...

I was thoroughly amazed, though... That Cheap Vaughn saw cuts easier and cleaner than my $50.00 Japanese pull saw... So well in fact that I just bought 3-new blades to keep on the shelf.

Thanks

John

Thanks John. Over here in the UK I can get a Japanese hand saw for not much more than a bog standard DIY saw, and I'd like to try a Hassunme saw, but they come in rip or cross cut versions, so I do really want to know which is best for the 15 degree scarf joint! I'm guessing the crosscut version will be best...
Cheers,
Sean

Your 15 degree cut is more of a rip cut.

Steve

Although I found this interesting discussion which suggests I need a cross cut saw:
http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2594&sid=c1b2c97a9eed9a4f2c2ace9f13d0fd3c

Sean

Definitely a Dozuki style crosscut. Either a Razorsaw 371 (large) or woodpecker z-saw (small). The small one is too small for cutting the sides slots on a classical neck without taking off the guides but it works with some care.

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Build log

I doubt that it matters very much. You will have to plane it true anyway. I'm pretty sure I could make that cut with the aftermath of a site carpenters 3 year old cheapo hardpoint.

If I had to choose only 1 -- it would be Rip.

Here's what I found...

Once you get the hang of the cutting.... you can use either one and you won't ruin the cut except in very specific circumstances...

Rip tends to cut much faster, but leaves a much rougher finish, especially crosscutting. It makes up for this by cutting extremely fast and being well behaved -- meaning easier for me to keep on track.

Crosscut tends to cut much slower, but leaves a much smoother finish when crosscutting... I think they also seem to wander more when cutting thick stock... maybe because it takes 10,000 passes to get all the way thru.

Ripping thick stock with a crosscut saw is an exercise in work ethic and Futility as the stringy wood fibers quickly clog it up after 2-3 passes... I also had trouble with these cuts making a larger kerf than they should... because the saw clogs and wanders.

I really find the fine teeth of the crosscut to run best when making any sorts of cuts through thin stock -- say to trim down thinned and bent sides... the Rough teeth of the Rip cut tend to grab and break the wood...

Otherwise, as I said, it doesn't matter much... as neither one will be ready for gluing directly off the saw... They will need cleaning/squaring up with a plane to get the joint really pretty.

Finally, If you are going to do a bunch of heavy ripping... Get an English/European/American style Push Rip saw... They will run circles around the finer Japanese pull saws...

Thanks

John

If you are talking about cutting the scarf joint, it is a crosscut. Rip is with the grain. The 15º angle to the face of the board leaves you far closer to crosscutting than to ripping.

Whatever hand saw you use is going to leave you with the need to clean up the joining surfaces.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

+1. On my first, which I'm still in the process of finishing, I cut the scarf joint with the back saw that came with a $20 plastic miter box. The cut was ugly as sin, but after I cleaned it up and glued it, you'd never know it. The tool is not as important as the skill or determination(in my case) of the hand guiding it. There's a sig line of one of the members here that reads roughly" If all you've got is a hammer, then all solutions require a hammer". You use what you've got/can get.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

John Abercrombie pointed out to me that I was seeing the 15º the wrong way (as 75º). So it is closer to a rip than a cross cut. I don't usually scarf joint my necks, if that's any excuse.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

When doing a scarf, the 15 degrees angle (or 10 or 75 whatever) is on the side plane, right? But regardless of this, on the face plane, the saw has to sever the fibers at exactly 90 degrees (assuming the stock is perfectly straight grain). So isn't it an ideal situation for a crosscut saw, regardless of what's on the side? Since the cut really goes across the long fibers? Even if I am wrong, i rarely like to use a rip saw for guitar building. Crosscut saws might be slow but are smoother - at least IME with Japanese saws.j

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Build log