Official Luthiers Forum!

A few years ago I bought a bunch of Allied rods from an OLF forum member (no longer active) at a good price. They seemed to work perfectly when held in a vise. However 4 of them failed when mounted in a neck: they couldn't be turned and the first thing to fail is the nut weld. I had to rebuild the necks for 4 instruments and tossed the rest of the rods…
Seems this guy knowingly sold me rods from a failed batch, as I later learned.
Since then I have purchased my rods directly from Allied and have had zero problem. They're great, and the added advantage is the minimal amount of material that needs to be routed off the neck.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I replaced a broken LMI? rod in a guitar that I didn't build. It could have been an Allied rod. I haven't had what I knew was an Allied rod in my hands. Can you tell the difference looking at them? Even the early ones? I used 3 LMI rods. I had one rattle but that was due to my igornance, not a fault of the rod. I haven't fixed it. It's my personal guitar, and it only rattles when the humidity is low, and dropped D tuning. I've been using the Martin rods. They're aren't expensive, and I like using a round bottomed slot. I use a filler strip with them, even though I've been told it isn't necessary. I'd hate for "low humidity, dropped D truss rod rattle" to happen to a clients guitar. I really like that the LMI rods are made in the USA, but they're expensive. Next time I order some I may use them because they're made here. I used the Gotoh rods for a while. I didn't have any problems with them. The Martin rods seemed a little.....sleeker.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I've replaced a handful of broken double acting rods, and fixed maybe a couple dozen that buzzed. Most of the time they work great. I have to say I'm surprised how well they work. Before I worked on guitars, I worked for a small company that manufactured racing bicycles. We made TIG welded steel frames. The welding that I've seen on truss rods (domestic and imported) would have ended up in the dumpster at the bike company. And yet, they seem to work fine, and go on working fine. I suppose it stands to reason that a truss rod doesn't have to endure the fatigue cycles that a bicycle does. (And you don't land on your face on the pavement if it fails.) The most common flaws are small cracks in the weld itself. If you look at the weld through a decent loupe, or hand magnifier, these are easy to spot. Most of the rods I've seen had these cracks. In my experience, these cracks don't propagate in service unless they are quite large. On a bicycle, even a small crack would quickly cause a failure. So what caused the failures on the rods I replaced? Most of these had the threads fouled by the weld puddle. If you look closely, you can usually see if this is a problem before you install the rod. You can also put one end of the rod in a vice and turn it both ways for 1 1/2 turns to make sure it functions smoothly. Slide a piece of plastic conduit over the rod before you test it. The rod needs to be supported or it may buckle near the nut. Something else to inspect: sometimes the broach for the allen socket is poorly made. Make sure that the allen wrench can engage at least 3/16 inch, and that the socket is hexagonal, not just a circle with some dents in its perimeter. A smoothly working rod won't do you any good if the wrench ends up just spinning in its socket. Also: make sure that the silicone you use to bed the rod is non-corrosive. Dow Corning 748 available from McMaster is excellent. What to do about a rod that buzzes after the guitar is built? It's not that difficult to fill the truss rod cavity with silicone after the fact. I pull the second fret, drill a 1/16 hole into the truss rod cavity at an angle, and inject a low viscosity, non-corrosive silicone through a hypodermic needle until it flows out inside the guitar. The first time you try this, you'll be swearing at me, but after the first few, it's pretty routine. It's definitely an improvement on pulling the finger board.

Good thread...I had a Martin-style rod fail in a customer's guitar...nightmare! He was very patient while I came to the OLF and sought advice...Mario came to the rescue and told me how to fix the rod, and opined on the rod that I was using at the time... ...I tossed the remaining ones I'd bought in the trash, went to the Allied rod and NEVER plan to change...I love this rod and as far as expense goes...remember, the truss rod is one of the less expensive parts of an otherwise very expensive project...and one of the worst things to overcome if it fails...my advice, for what it's worth, is DON'T skimp here!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

I have used all but the double action "Martin Style" truss rod sold by LMI. I have not had any failures or problems, except for a slight rattle when an original single action Martin rod (aluminum channel) was not taught. I prefer the new Martin double action truss rod for the same reasons stated above...it's beefiness and solid feel when adjusting.....I think more of us would use the Stew Mac Hot Rod if it did not require such a deep channel.

Chuck

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I've used the LMI TRSD rod or the Allied double action on 35 instruments with no known failures. (Martin one way before that) A couple of rattles early on that I fixed by injecting rubber cement using the same technique mentioned above. I have no plans to change from the Allied rod I now use.
TJK

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I use all Martin rods. I tried a few stew mac rods early with a few failures . Martin rods have been very good to me and I don't plan to change. Like anything, if you find something that works don't change.
I also like carbon fiber.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

The last ones I received were blue, they must have run out of black shrink wrap.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

the first batch was black now I think the 14 freters are blue and the 12 frets are black.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Isn't Titanium pretty notch sensitive Todd? Would that be a problem with use in truss rods?
TJK

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Todd,

The rod that vexed me is rod #3...steel outer channel...I think Mario even got a "cease and desist" letter of sorts for complaining enthusiastically about this rod...(I don't blame him)....he advised cutting the outer channel back to expose the inner rod, and putting on a new washer and nut...I was left with a single action rod which according to Mario is the way these rods should act...I ended up dressing the fb and using lt/med string combo to get proper relief in the neck and the customer was satisfied...

Larry

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

I bought some martin style rods, although I am not sure where they originated from, is there a way to tell them apart? test them ? or even if someone could post some pics showing the differences... if there are any visual differences . Jody

actualy mine are all oneway with the aluminum housing, so it seems I am fine. although from this thread, it seems a good idea to stress your rods before final assembly. ..... jody

I got away from using the LMI rods years ago because of weld failure. Their welds are more like fills, than they are actual welds. They look good and clean, but the actual melding of the metals was non-existent. I've been using the Hot Rods, with no problems whatsoever. I oil them before installing them and bed them well in silicone to prevent rattling. Not a single problem in seven years or so.