Official Luthiers Forum!

How long does the average Custome build Luthier offer to warranty his work , Is there a large varriance , or is there a basic industry standard of time most adhear to?

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I'm not a professional builder at all, but doing research lately looking at various builders for my own custom build, it really varies from 2 years to a lifetime as long as damage isn't proved to be due to negligence.

Some builders will void a lifetime warranty if you sell it on to a new owner. Although, some I have called in the last few weeks will if you send the guitar to them first to inspect it before you sell it on.

Gee Wud,

me woodn't know about other builders.

Me very seldom if ever do much custom work and as me builds are mostly all experimental...well the warranty, she stops at the door.

Like I tell em, what you see is what you get and what you get ain't gonna get much better n what you see. Now will that be cash or cash?

Ummm...is true, me don't sell much, can't be build an orchestra if me be selling them off... but the odd instrument that me do let go is happy....or me don't let it go.

Simple.

blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I warranty my guitars for my lifetime. That way my clients have a good warranty, and my Grandkids won't get stuck for warranty repairs if something happens to me. Normal disclaimer about abuse and neglect applies.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

i will check old ones , didnt think of that thanks

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Many of the folks that I know will warranty their guitars for their lifetime "as a practicing Luthier." The intent here is to limit warranty coverage after they retire or die. And of course all of the disclaimers designed to not cover neglect, abuse, etc are there too.

An interesting conversation, not to high-jack, would be to look into LMI's new deal where they, LMI, will offer warranty coverage for one year to people purchasing guitars from a select list of Luthiers if said Luthier passes. I've been told that it is an effort to help protect the value-add of being an exhibitor at HGF.

Structural Craftsmanship, I.E. the cabinetry, joinery and set-up should be a long term warrantee. You should also have disclaimers for negligent care and non-approved structural modifications.

I myself provide a 10 craftsmanship year warrantee. All electronics and third party mechanical components like tuners are manufacture warranty but I handle the claim.

Finish is limited warranty. I will take care of any finish issues that are finish failure related but common ware and or abuse is not covered by warrantee.

A local builder offers a 5 year warranty. I spoke with him about that and he makes a good case for it. It seems that if a guitar holds together for five years, then it was built well with good materials. Anything after that probably is related to neglect and abuse.

I'm bringing this up for discussion as I value all opinions here.
Right now, I offer the lifetime warranty, but this has me thinking.

What do you guys think about a 5 year warranty?

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

There is a good case for a long warrantee, there is a good case for a limited time frame. there is a better case for controling your reputation. You will be judged pre-purchase on how you say you will stand behind your work and the word or mouth of how others have said you have stood behind your work for them.

I think that the reasoning is sound (pardon the pun) but that is not my biggest concern...

I spent a huge portion of my working life writing contracts/agreements that covered who is responsible for what in the event of X or Y. Although I am not an attorney attorneys often worked with me and traveled with me too. The point of all of this is that everything has to have a beginning AND an end and if you wanna know why ask an accountant. Accountants will tell you that when you have potential services out there that MAY need to be performed the recognition of revenue becomes a nightmare..... We never talk about revenue recognition here and I have always wondered why. Perhaps the recognition of nothing just is not important...

Anyway my largest concern is that in this business my impression is that rugged individualists are few and far between.... What I mean to say is that if you survey your peer builders and what warranties that they offer you will find a bell curve where 80% of Luthiers seem to offer very much the same thing... As such anyone who bucks the trend is possibly going to stand out if warranties are a selection criteria for prospective clients...

I say "if" because I am not sure that warranties are a major concern of prospective clients so long as a warranty that provided protection to the client for a reasonable period of time is available.

You know instead of reading the tea leaves here like we often do if it were up to me I would run a survey on the AGF forum of players. The AGF has a lot of players who are clients of Luthiers and who of course purchase custom guitars.

Survey the prospective clients for what is important to them in a warranty including the time frame and see what they say. After all although the customer is not always right IMHO they do always need to be listened to and more importantly heard loud and clear. Take the data gleaned from a survey and overlay it on your own warranty and see what gives. We may find that there is a sweet spot that doesn't require an unnatural act to cover in our own warranties.

This is a good thread and it's timely for me too since my own warranty is being looked at right now. I can tell you that in my experience the guitars that I have sold went to folks who never asked me at all about what my warranty covers. In one instance when I handed a copy of the owner's documents to a client he was surprised that there was a warranty at all and said so. Makes me wonder if the warranties in this business have evolved largely by a process of keeping up with the Jonses...

My question stems from my intrest in selling my products . I have 2 Mandolins under my belt now and have had both evaluated by musicans who have said they are good sound good quality . I will NOT take custom orders , I build what I like , and if someone wants to purchase a mandolin I have for $899.00 I would not be thinking "lifetime warranty" Or should I ? Was thinking more on lines of 1-3 yrs . .

So I guess Maybe my question was a bit Vauge , " gotta work on that "

So based on those paramaters , is my thinking reasonable for the industry ?

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

James my friend I think that you can do and offer anything that you wish. That's the beauty of being self-unemployed.... with Lutherie...

Seriously though you can do as you wish but the real question is going to be will what you offer compliment your offerings or detract from them. Personally I think that there is a lot more room for folks to go their own way with warranties but I would feel better if I had some data to support this conclusion....

BTW you biz model of building what you like and then perhaps selling it has always appealed to me. It's all about what you wanna get out of your efforts. Yeah I know, that may have been yet another stupid statement....

Those are great points, Hesh. Especially about surveying people at AGF and similar forums.

Makes sense hesh. Really dont wanna be on either extreme , (a) looking like a cheap builder with no substance ( b ) going for a warranty that will bite me hard 10 yrs down the road . and being new here thats why im trying to feel this out. Also , do NOT wanna get the Reputation of being a builder who is Lowering the quality or standards of the industry . What people think of the industry as a whole affects us all . And I do not wanna be the guy peeing in the punch !

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Here is my take on a warrantee that "bites" you 10 years down the road. If you have any doubt that you can fix, correct or replace any type of warrantee work that may come back to you 10 years down the road. Then you are not ready to start selling your work.

I don't mean that to sound harsh. But rather to honest. One of the worst things you can to is start selling your work to the general public with out the repair skills to support your warrantee. This is one of the biggest failure issues in commercial lutherie.

Till one is at that point they should limit commission work. Build as a favor for friends is one thing but to the general public is all together different.

Thanks guys , those are very valiuable points to consider . Thats EXACTLY the types of comments im looking for . and as for me taking stuff wrong way , dont worry would rather people be honest and up front.

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

AGF thread started here -

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/foru ... ost2093024

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

A small point: A warrenty for the lifetime of the luthier is not really accurate. Most people will not be actively building during the last few years of their life.

+1,000,000.

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George :-)

I dont have concerns about repair down the road , as much as I have concerns about people . Maybe the Industry is diffrent here than my regular customer base in my regular business . People in my regular business will do everything in there power it seems to fudge or cheat a warranty . so forgive me if i seem gun shy ummm I AM lol . And Honesty is what i appreciate from this forum . So thanks everyone

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Yes there will be people that damage their instruments and attempt to get it repaired under warrantee. Nothing different here except if you good enough to build and repair all possible repairs you will always be able to tell if it was an inherent structural failure or abuse or neglect. Limiting the time frame of your warrantee will do little or nothing to prevent or even limit those types of claims. But a written warranty will give you ground to stand on when you must tell a client that the claim is not covered due to negligence or abuse.

Limiting the time frame of a warranty might actually cause some claims. I call it "warranty-itius". I'm a technician at a Chevy dealership. We have all kinds of squeaks, rattles ect when the warranty is about to expire. If the warranty wasn't about to expire these "problems" wouldn't matter.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Taken literally, this could mean that after many years of experience, after which a builder has attained the highest standards possible in terms of build quality, they would be no closer to being able to sell instruments. I think I've attained a pretty good standard after building on and off for the best part of 25 years, but I'm no repair person, and never will be. I don't have the specialised skills (or tools) or the desire to acquire them.

Am I destined forever to give my guitars away to family and friends or is there an alternative? Here in my home town, there's a repair person who is extremely well regarded - he can work miracles apparently with even the most challenging repair. Why on earth can't I offer a lifetime warranty and farm any repair work out to the likes of him? I'm sure a customer wouldn't take that as a failure to uphold my end of the bargain, or would even care who carried out such repair work. Who knows, they may even be comforted by the fact that a specialist repair person is to be enlisted to look after their guitar.

Cheers
Pete

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Cheers
Pete