Official Luthiers Forum!

I see that some use carbon fibre rods to strengthen the neck and/or buttresses to the sides.
(a) Where in the UK can I get this stuff ?
(b) Do you use round or square profile ?
(c) Size/dimensions ?
(d) Is it costly ?

Any information would be much appreciated.

Bill S.

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Dream to be a luthier

Hi Bill
I've just put in an order for some from LMI. You can also get it from Stewmac.
I don't think you can get it in the UK. At least, I couldn't find anyone who does it.
I've never used it before either but I've ordered some 'round' for the butresses and 'square' for the neck.
Is it costly? Depends on how important you think it is. I've just got mine as part of a larger order but I imagine it would be quite costly if you were just buying the rods, considering the shipping and import tax you would be paying if you got it from the states.
Mat

I used 1/4" carbon-fiber tubing in an adjustable neck. The tubing was 1/2 in the neck and 1/2 in the fretboard. I used two pieces of tubing almost the full length of the fretboard, one on each side of the truss rod. I didn't feel it stiffened the fretboard extension as much as I wanted - there was an obvious tone difference in the higher frets (above 16) and it was fairly easy to flex the extension. I also don't feel that it stiffened the neck that much either. Next time I'll use two rectangular 3/8" x 1/8" strips set in vertically on either side of the truss rod. I plan to do my neck extensions differently as well.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I have a hard time believing that you can't get carbon fiber round and square bars in the UK. I am sure the air craft. Hobby and many other industries in the UK use carbon fiber bars so there has to be a supplier or many suppliers over there that sell carbon fiber. Check with you local radio control hobby centers. Carbon fiber bars are common in custom and top end RC air craft construction.

Micheal,

I have a hard time believing it too but it's impossible to get suitable CF bars here in the UK (or Europe) and I have to get these from the US. You can however get rods and tubes from model shops (used in model aircraft building etc) as you suggest.

Bill - Google on "Carbon fibre rods" on UK pages and you should find some sources local to you or that do mail order. I use 0.2"x0.25" CF bars in my necks that I get from Stew Mac and depending on the exchange rate work out at about £14 each after VAT duty and the carrier takes their cut. I used to use these for my buttress braces but now use 6mm diameter CF rods that I buy from a model shop in Slough. This is around £8 for a 600 length - so is much cheaper.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Try Jim Watts @ Los Alamos....... costs might be better.
http://www.jameswattsguitars.com/LAC.htm

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Dave
Milton, ON

or Dragonplate ... they have lots of stuff, for almost anything. I get round CF from the local hobby shop as Michael suggests .. probably not as cheap, but its fast and easy, no shipping.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Yep. I also build large scale RC airplanes and use a lot of solid square carbon fiber bars and solid round carbon fiber bars from 1.5mm to 25mm as well as a good deal of carbon fiber tubinig mostly round from 6mm to 25mm. I probably should buy more in bulk or on-line but tend to run down to my local RC shop and grab what I need at the time.

Check for model helicopter parts too. Usually they sell "boom" material. No, we're not talking bombs here...I use 3/8" and 1/2"

Bill, Another suggestion and possibly a less costly one is to look at your local sporting goods store or archery supply and see if they carry carbon arrow shafts. They are made in various sizes and lengths and many use them for buttress supports inside their guitars. Good luck in your search...

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Peter

Thanks guys, I've already already googled for this stuff in the UK but so far, I haven't found anything suitable. However I'll plough through some more and see what I can come up with.

Thanks again,
Bill

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Dream to be a luthier

Hi Bill,

I believe I've mentioned this in an earlier post but the stiffness of aluminum and the garden variety of CF is ~ the same from my measurements. If you're just going to use rods and rectangular cross-section materials, you might consider aluminum. It has to be safer from a dust, etc. standpoint and is probably much easier to work with.

aloha,

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David C. Hurd
http://www.ukuleles.com

Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. Through the Looking Glass by L. Carroll

"Since my house has burned down, I have a much better view of the moon"

I got 185,000 hits for "sales, carbon fiber rod, UK" one of the first ones was http://www.carbontech.co.uk.

David, you must be testing pieces made out of a woven cloth, a multi-directional lay-up, or perhaps a resin rich product such as a hand lay-up.
A layup made from prepreg with all the fibers running the same direction will have a modulus around 18-20 msi.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Jim, please forgive my ignorance, but what does msi mean? I assume you're talking about the Young's modulus. I'd like to compare that figure to the Young's modulus of various woods, but the data I find on woods is expressed in different terms. Thanks!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

My son is a bow hunter, if you send me your address I'll send you enough broken arrowshafts to make 5 guitars. Every fall his target practice replenishes my supply. M Hammond

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The Biggest Little City, Nevada
www.hammondguitars.com
I love building guitars!

I should have said different units, namely psi or MPa.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd, msi is an abbreviation for "million pounds square inch" and is an extension of psi, the American unit for pressure.
So, 20 MSI is 20,000,000 psi.
The other unit your running into is Pascals, the SI unit. So 1 KPa is 1,000 Pa, 1 MPa is 1,000,000 Pa.
There's about 6894.7 Pa in 1 PSI
I should really be using the SI unit not the American unit to be proper.
20 msi is 138,000 MPa.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Thank you, Jim. Very helpful, and much appreciated!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I managed to get some 6mm square with a 3mm hole up the middle in my local model shop and I plan to cut this in half and put a piece either side of the truss rod from the soundhole end as far as it'll reach as my first build when played started to alter the tone/sound from around fret 8 upwards. Not as a big problem for me as I tend to play in first position chords only but there's always room for improvement.

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Mhammond, I've sent you a PM.

Cheers
Bill

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Dream to be a luthier