Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi guys

I recently completed a commission build. The owner loves the guitar and has just phoned me to enquire about the possibility of a new commission.

HOWEVER, he wants a 'mirror image' of the first guitar.
This guitar is Koa and Englemann (see pic)

He wants the new guitar to be the exact opposite. I can easily do a Koa top but am struggling with the back and sides. Obviously it will be a 'best fit' but he won't have the build unless it is a really good best fit.

Does anyone have any ideas on what Back & Side wood would be light enough to mimick the Englemann. It has to be NON figured.

All I can come up with at the moment is 'Cypress' but I have never seen it in the flesh and don't know if it will be pale enough. ANY IDEAS?? -

I'll also need to know where to get hold of the wood so any help there would also be greatly appreciated.
Getting a commission is hard enough so I'd really like to attempt this build.

Many thanks for your help,

Mat

if it were me, I would probably look at unfigured Euro Maple for the back and sides. Euro Maple is very white and from a short distance I think that would give you the look you are after.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Thanks Brock

My immediate thought was Maple but most sites are obviously showing their 'figured' stuff.

Anyone know of any vendors selling plain Euro Maple that I could contact??

Thanks

Hi-

I bought some Port Orford Cedar back and sides from Les Stansell - http://www.stansellguitars.com/. It wasn't cheap but the wood was excellent and ready to go right away. I think all the POC he uses or sells air dries 8-10 years first. POC looks like spruce - the color, sheen and tight grain match well. If you do get some, make sure you tell him you want it unfigured. Some sets have a nice subtle flame like redwood can have.

Med. or Monterey cypress are the right color but look a little different. Alaskan cedar is great wood too but has a yellow tint. You could use Engelmann also - I've heard spruce bends fine. I don't know where you would find side material though. Good luck.

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

Another option would be Spanish Cypress. Fairly easy to get light, unfigured sets. The problem might be getting sides big enough for a larger guitar, as most suppliers cut SC for Flamenco guitars.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

It's not worth anybody's time to resaw un-figured maple for guitar sets, I would think there is no demand for it.
However you can always go to your local lumberyards and find a nice quartersawn plank of maple that has zero figure and resaw it yourself. I always see nice planks in my neck of the woods. Birch or yellow birch could also be good choices.
An exceedingly unusual guitar would be spruce back & sides (I wouldn't choose Englemann though) and a nice, light, resonant koa top.

Edit: Seeing that you're in the UK, isn't plane available without much figure?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

If you want grain like a spruce then you might try Adirondack which is a lot tougher than other spruces and might work for back and sides. It's probably more white than the cedar or cypress mentioned. I've never bent it though. Maple won't have the fine grain if that's a deal breaker. Is this a situation where the owner might not like the instrument once it's made? This is an interesting idea that could go south on you. Nice guitar BTW.

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Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

John - Thanks for the link

Waddy - S.Cypress was my guess. It's an option

Laurent - Thanks. I've never seen Birch used. Lumberyards round here do not deal with these types of hardwoods. They mostly only deal with wood for fencing. However, I've just looked on D.Dyke's site and he seems to have 'plain maple'!!

Ken - This was my first 'real' commission. The owner and I had a fantastic continuing dialogue all through the build and ended up pretty friendly. He's a top man. If he wants it and I end up doing it - he'll keep to his bargain. Hence the reason I'd really like to do this build.

Thanks all - Any more suggestions would still be greatly appreciated

Some of the Myrtle I have seen is as light as maple.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

I would think that an unfigured English Sycamore (at least that's what it is called in the US - its a true Maple, genus Acer) would fit the bill. I'm building a Dread from a figured set now, and I think the color would fit the bill. It would just be a lumberyard trip for you' I'd guess.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Matthew, give David a call and tell him what you're after if he has anything that will do he'll cut it for you. Alternatively call Chris at Timberline (exotic hardwoods) http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/

This is a Cypress classical I built recently, the grain line is the closest you'll get to spruce in a B&S set as it is classified as a softwood, plus it smells gorgeous.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

English sycamore == Acer Pseudoplatanus == Euro maple.

I'd go with Cypress. Still want to get some to build with..

Steve/Jim - Thanks

Colin - I will give David a call first. BTW, that guitar is stunning and the Cypress looks pretty close to what I was thinking

Matthew,

I have a couple of customers that have, and continue to build all spruce guitars. Typically flamencos and the back and sides I try to get some figure in there for them. But, there is no reason you could not use any spruce for back and sides. I find the Engelmann and Euro I have a bit soft, but Adi, Sitka or Lutz would work well I think.

Good Luck with the project!

Shane

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Canada

Yellow Cedar (Canadian Cypress?) should work for back and sides. It wouldn't be expensive either. I don't know how it will sound, especially with a hardwood top.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

What about Osage Orange? It's not as white as maple can be (my Osage set has a bit of a yellowish tint) but it's got a reputation as a fantastic tonewood. Mine has a really wonderful tap tone.

I'm interpreting your "mirror image" objective to be in terms of appearance - not putting a hardwood on the top, right? Clearly not recommended.

To match the appearance of the Koa on the top, you could go with sinker redwood, or western red cedar, which will get close to the tint, but not the figure, which I think you said you'd like to avoid. Figured top = trouble, according to what I've read here and in other places.

Why not laminate Engelmann with any wood (preferably with light colored wood)? I would laminate it to cypress, just for the sake of the inner appearance of the guitar.

With a good scraper plane you can take the thickness down to less than 1mm (=0.04") ...or to vitrually nothing I have made maple sheets of 0.25mm with my Veritas scraping plane, with Engelmann you probably will have to stop with 0.5mm or even 1.0mm which still would do it together with another 1.0 - 1.5mm of the "cipress or anything".

My suggestion would be to use Lutz laminated on top of maple for the back, solid Lutz for the sides, and koa laminated on top of Lutz (or other spruce or cedar) for the top. Or forget the laminations and just do Lutz B&S and koa top. It seems to me that the only way to really fulfill this customer's wish is to use woods that look the same as the woods on the other guitar - not similar, but the same. As Shane suggests, I'd choose Lutz for the B&S rather than Englemann - essentially no difference in appearance if the Lutz is selected for the purpose.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I'd say if it just needs to have the right color/contrast, to look right at say 10' away, then Euro Maple is as close to Engelmann as you'll get in a hardwood, and let you stay in more traditioanl guitar building territory. If the actaul grain appearance is crucial, you'll have to go with a very light softwood. You could chance it with Engelmann and have a truly exact match, or go with probably Lutz and be very close with a little more toughness margin. Either way, this is out of norms as far as body wood. I think it would be cool as heck though.

Peace,
Sanaka

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...imagine there were no hypothetical situations...

How about American Holly? its as white as it gets...

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Thank you all for your help and suggestions

At the moment I have Shane on the case for me

I'll let you know how it goes

Mat

I second the holly .. I even have a set that was given to me , not sure that I will ever use it .... PM me if you want ???

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"