Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi Guys/Gals,

I posted quite a while ago with a guitar design I came up with...
It has been a while, but I finally got another video using it.
its not so much a guitar demo.. as a song I'm working on,
but I thought some of you might be interested in hearing the prototype..
(it has changed significantly since the last video, and the range is much
broader.. (i.e. bass response) and it is less sensitive. (it was toooo sensitive before).

anyway, check it out,
I still plan to get a proper demo done with a finger style player of talent..
however this will have to do for now.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Dalefromthe ... D9fD90kfjs

Cheers,
Dale

Dale I really enjoyed the song and your singing so much so that I barely paid attention to the guitar.... Maybe if you want to showcase the guitar you should get someone to do the video who does not have talent!! Great tune!!

wow,
thanks Hesh,
that is such a nice thing to say, seriously, thanks, that touched me.

I do plan indeed to get a demo done, just guitar playing,
but my playing doesnt hold well on its own when I dont sing..
its kinda my loose poor timing style, and it kinda holds together
if I sing and play at the same time,
playing alone... well, its just not really a pretty thing.

thanks again for the comment.. really made my day.

Dale

Dalester,
what can I say?? Pretty good singer...
How about a video playing the guitar with no vocals?

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I plan to get a good demo up of the guitar in action,
but I'm still in the process of getting someone,
and setting up the shot..
(i.e. im gonna get someone who can really play finger style etc)

it will come,
I just posted this, cause I record me songs kinda as they come to me,
so I had it on youtube, and thought I would keep OLF up to date
with the progress of the guitar.

Dalester:

I recall your previous post. Some neat ideas. Your guitar playing ability is fine to demo the guitar. Just orient the same mic for the guitar w/o the vocal. I enjoyed the song as well. I would not introduce the cat to the mix until the second verse, but that's just me.

Danny R. Little

Hi, Dale you might consider leaving of the reverb as well. It tends to distract from the performance

Richard

Dale,
I'd be interested in hearing a bare bones recording of that guitar. Without the vocals,
without the background vocals and without the verb.......just the dry, uncompressed
guitar through a flat EQ.

Thanks,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

hmmm. So what makes this guitar revolutionary? Looks very similar to any other guitar. Great song by the way.

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

If it's the guitar i think it is , it's very revolutionary.Has two separate tops that aren't braced at all.Two separate bodies as well. And two separate bridges.Very unique to say the least.

you are correct Mark,
its the guitar you are thinking of.

quite revolutionary or unique, strange etc etc...

the fact that people think it looks like a traditional guitar when they look at it was part of the plan,
as I dont think the market would accept something that looked as radical as my first visions..
(i.e. unlike a traditional guitar)


for everyone who has asked for a dry guitar demo, i assure you it is coming..
next week I'm taking it into the studio, and im going to ask to shoot a video there, and
syc to the audio from the studio... should be a good recording for once and for all..

also, a big thanks to those that have been kind about the song and singing, I find it
a touch intimidating to let my creative stuff out, and you guys being nice sure makes that
a rewarding feeling.

Hi Kevin,

if you give me your email address, I can possibly send you an AIFF file,
videos are great for showing the feel etc, but the sound quality after it hits youtube is so bad..
i can't believe how much is lost...

Cheers,
Dale
p.s. I have long thought your builds are fantastic.

Sorry i must of missed all the talk when this was discussed so excuse my ignorance. There are people doing double tops and bottoms on guitars. Not something i heard of until i joined this site. I've clicked on a lot of the users websites and some of them are offering this as an option.

So how is this different? Or is it secret due to patents etc... It's hard to share the excitement when looks and quacks like a duck if you know what i mean. No disrespect or poking intended. I hope you have made something very special indeed. To think the likes of a Newbie on some forum meeting someone who changes things is very exciting indeed.

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

it has 2 bodies, see the black line running down the top? thats the gap between the two bodies, so the 3 bass strings drive one body, at the 3 treble strings drive another one. thats what makes it different from other guitars

_________________
"Anything that happens, happens. Anything that in happening causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Anything that in happening happens again, happens again. Though not necessarily in that order." Douglas Adams

well put..

most people assume from 1 pic, that its a traditional, possibly with a centre brace as others have done..

2 completely separate guitars joined in the middle...
(the joining method is one of the secrets that makes it work, but also
the trick was getting the vibration into the middle of each top...)

i.e. there is something going on inside you cant see, so that the vibrations drive the middle of each top,
otherwise the vibrations were very compressed as each bridge is so close to the "side" that meets in the middle..

if that makes sense.

Yes it does make sense. First thing i thought of is the problem of top vibrations. Very clever stuff thanks for sharing. Will you be able to patent it? It certainly seems different enough for a patent.

That's a pretty costly process isn't it?

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

I could definately apply for patent,
for various reasons, including financial situation, I have
decided to not apply at this time.

there are enough secrets I haven't revealed that make it tick,
and anyone that sees it in person has signed a non-disclosure,
so I feel a little bit covered, but I realize I am basically unprotected.



my goal is not to make millions, I would like to see the design realized
in the hands of proper luthiers,

because the most amazing thing to me, that seems to be very overlooked is..
I am not a luthier, this was my first attempt at building a guitar,
and I did a very sloppy job of it. yet it still records far "superior" to any of the
traditional guitars I have recorded. which makes me think, imagine if a luthier built this
design..

not to mention if the design was given the amount of time traditional single chamber guitars have
had to evolve... with so many skilled luthiers building them around the world..
wow.. its just incredible for me to think what could come of this design given the same
opportunity.

Nice song and first build

You mean kinda like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEZNzOAQFM

(kidding )

tee hee...
thats awesome!!!

lol

I would find the money, beg borrow or steal it, before some one else does. If this is as special as you say, you could go down in the history books... If you don't protect it that's all you will have, for all your blood, sweat and tears.

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

Hi Woodsworth..

I hear ya,
I would love to have it protected, and not only for my financial security, (which is currently in some jeopardy)
but also because if it was protected, I would already have been in the offices of CF martin, gibson and a couple
others that have seen the video and want to see it in person...

sadly, they cannot deal with it until it is patented... so thus, its a catch 22...

another thing is, in order to be truly covered, which i personally believe you never are..
you gotta make sure its done properly, and even then, I believe that companies eventually
will find a way to do it slightly different or find a loop hole..
to me thats just common sense.. and part of a competitive market place.

the answer to me, is that one of the large companies have the foresight to take it on before it
is protected, and patent is under their established company, with their lawyers etc,
then it will carry much more weight, both legally, and in the market.

currently, despite the fact that it records really well, and the idea has delighted some luthiers,
it is really in the scheme of things, just another guy with an idea... and lets face it
the big companies probably hear about someone with "the next big thing" all the time.

the other option, ,that personally i thought was the best option,
was for me to partner up with a luthier.

I have this idea, i have proven it will technically work, but im not a builder, nor do i have time
to become a luthier... but if someone was open minded, they could put some time into
this, we could refine the prototype to the point where it was undeniably great.
at that time, we could take it to some guitar shows, never revealing the few "secrets" that make it work,
but allowing the "concept" to be seen, cause it really does invoke a sense of wonder when seen i think..

at that point, i believe it would take off, with a little positive energy, and the willingness to let it become
whatever it becomes, I think myself, and the luthier partner, would stand to gain a few things.

1 for certain, is being part of a creation process that produces something new, if not better, related to
guitars.. something we all love.
2. possibly changing the face of music, i.e. recordings in general could become much clearer with more
articulation on guitar, which changes the openness of guitar and vocals on mixes..
3. possibly financial reward for that positive energy that is put into the project.


the problem is, and I want to make it clear, im not lumping all luthiers into a catagorie,
but in my experience, and that is, having talked to a few luthiers specifically about such a process,
the problem... finding that luthier who doesnt think im nuts, who is willing to put energy into
an uncertain project, and who has the time and availability to actually act on this.

I'm certain if I had a large bankroll, I could simply commission luthiers to build subsequent prototypes
until its is refined, and to be honest, i believe the next one will be ready to roll, as there is only 1 more change
needed to get it basically at my vision...

so that raises even another question, lets just say i do have a 3rd proto that is finished, and lets just assume
it is awesome, and awe inspiring, then im back to square 1, what to do with it,
where to take it.

that led me to "reveal" my prototype and the concept here on the forum,
thinking that if i didnt do SOMETHING to let the idea out, it would likely die, just
stuck in my head, I think all the restrictions around trying to make money would at some point
restrict the idea from flowing to all you great people.

I would keep the idea to myself if i were you. No matter what your financial situation, or how you would like to see this pan out. The only people i'd be sharing it with is money people and musicians. Musicians can be great allies in such matters and i'd be getting my ass down to studio's getting them to play it in controlled environments. If your first build is not good enough then get a luthier you can trust to build one for you to the specs you want and get them to sign that they will not make another like it. Once you have proper exposure it will either sink or swim. You are better off going bankrupt with an idea in your head then with something that can be taken away from you.

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

woodsworth,,

yeah, I see there being 2 sides to the senario,
and most things I guess,

it really comes down to how important money is to me,
and while I need enough to keep my family going etc, I dont believe in using
financial gain as the main reason for doing something,
or being the critical factor in a big decision..

I would much rather have the idea become something and me not make a cent,
than to have it not become something and me not make a cent.

I totally understand what you are saying, and trust me, i have had this idea under my hat for years,
but the frustration was building up, I was excited, but got depressed about the idea, because they wanted it patend..

since I have put the original message on this forum, i feel much less frustrated..
(much less in control of the idea, but less frustrated... )

I have tons of these kinds of ideas also, so i cant really get stuck on one for too long,
and to be still on this one for a couple years now is a near miracle for me.

I also came up with an idea for a little box in peoples house that
would let them know the school bus was getting close, so they could send the kids out
just in time for the bus, this would keep kids safer, and they would only get on the right bus,
also, it would reduce idle times as bus drivers usually wait if the kids arent out there.

I was able to get that idea into some companies, and it looked good for a while,
but it just got frustrating too..

i thought it was pretty cool, and would amount to a fair profit,
but also help the enviroment and kids safety, what could be better..

some of my other ideas include a device that keeps a motorcycle balanced upright, without the needs for
the rider to balance, even when standing still, and would actually shift the centre of gravity into corners,
just imagine what that could do for racers... where every corner counts.

some of the more gimiky ideas i had are things like, a power patio umbrella, run off a drill in the base,
with a car battery type thing in the base, where weight is needed anyway, and a solar cell on the top,
a remote. or it could be set to go up when the sun is out.
(I hate bending into the center of the table for some reason)
a home car wash, so your car is washed every time you bring it off the road..
(this would be build into your garage door, and just give a good spray as you entered.

see.. not much room in my bean for 1 idea for too long..

I do understand your thinking. Trust me. I used to come up with new ideas all the time, however the very next year it was on the market!!! So i kinda gave up on that kind of thinking, it was to depressing. There are so many inventions i could of claimed to think of before they came out that at one time i thought of mailing the ideas to myself in a sealed envelope so they would be post dated as proof, but for what....

I'm going to go out on a limb here and probably tell you something that isn't new to you, you've probably heard it before, just as I have. Seeing things through. It's good to have ideas and invent things, but without seeing them through, they will amount to nothing. If you look at this idea as just an other idea, that's all it will be. You have hurdles, but nothing that can't be over come with the same creativity that got you to make it, just used in a different way. I would not stop and move on, you have the prototype in your hand.

Many of us Newbies here are just happy enough to learn how to build a guitar. You've invented a guitar different enough that it can be patented. What does your wife think about this?

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation