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Hi everyone,

I actually started gathering materials for my build. I purchased a back and side set. The back is slightly cupped but I have laid it flat on concrete, cupped side down and I hope it flattens out. I cut some red oak and poplar 12" sticks for stickering once it flattens out. The walnut sides are in good shape. I plan to get the Safe-T-Planer to bring them down from their current 1/4" to 1/8" then go at it with a hand plane.

Today I went to a local hardwood store (I like to see what I am buying rather than mail order all the time) and had them cut me 1 board foot, 4 feet, 3", 1" long board of quarter sawn Spanish Cedar. This will be my neck blank. It was cut from bigger piece that looked like a railroad sleeper. It was 3" x 6" x 10 feet.

I saw lots of posts about storing wood and stickering. Which is what I am doing with my back and side set. I will keep it in the house. Should I also paint the ends with shelac ? It was dried out to 7 to 9%. I will not use it for another few months yet.
How about my new neck blank ? I realized that as I was bringing it home, that I do not know it's moisture content, and now that it has been cut to a smaller dimension, does it have to redry ? How do I dry out my neck blank ? Stickering as well ? Is there an easy way for me to know if I can begin carving it ? How can I tell if it is dry ? All sides seem to be dry by touching it, including the side that was on the "inside".


Thanks !

John

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

Well you are not getting answers from those better than me, so I'll try to help. You should seal the edges of the wood. I think shellac might be OK. I am using interior latex paint now. Do not use oil base paints, because they will stain the wood. Do not use wax, because it can run into the wood when the wood itself is heated, even on a very hot day. Sticker all the flat wood. Don't bother with the concrete floor. Stickers need to be a wood or other material that doesn't bleed. I think pine, for example, is bad because it has natural solvents. Seal the neck billet, too. Many people sticker these also, but some people prop them up on end and lean them against the wall. This only works if you have a few, so probably just sticker the neck, too. All the stored wood is better with air circulation. A few people who know how to really tell if wood is aged and dried will remove the stickers and leave the wood stacked together, but I don't prefer that.

7-9% is as dry as it will get just air drying ... you shouldnt need to seal the ends, its not going to lose any more moisture really ... sticker it if you like. Once stuff is dry and stable, I dont bother, just up on the shelf.

as for the neck .. was it a kiln dried piece ? call and find out, most likely it was .. if so, its fine. I usually dont build with stuff unless it was cut a couple years back when I buy it (some places keep track of this, or its written on the stock), and even then most stuff I have is not being used for another year to two anyway. A lot of what I have is at least 4-5 years old in the shop, my bridge blanks are over 20 ...

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Again, others have more experience with aging wood than I - but I can share my experience to date.

If it's cupping, it's probably not sufficiently dry (did you buy it from a reputable luthier supply shop? or from ebay?) - you can buy a wood moisture meter if you want to get scientific about it. But at 125 - 175 thou or so - it will dry out pretty quickly in "normal conditions" if you sticker it in a place where you get some air movement.

I'd get it off the concrete - depending on the floor you may be getting moisture from the floor. I'd sticker it with some nice uniform stickers, put some weight on it, and leave it for a month.

As for sealing the ends - not sure. Definitely a good idea if you have large boards of recently cut wood that you want to dry out. For back and side sets, not sure. Can't hurt - if so, I'd use the pruning paint to provide a moisture barrier. Not sure a coat of shellac on the ends is sufficient.

Cupping wood does not always indicate dryness (or wetness) .... a set may be fully air dried, but sitting in a dealers shop at 55%, or even 35% or lower in winter .. they dont exactly control humidity to the extent we usually do.

So .. when you bring the set home, and put it in your 40 % shop, whatever side is exposed (say you leave it on your bench overnight) will cup upwards ... simply flipping it over unilt it acclimatises will solve this. It has happened to me many a time - I bought a top last week near me and taking it to the car made it cup .. after an overnight in the shop, it was flat again.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I have a set of Cocobolo that I'm preparing for use now. The backs look like airplane propellers. I have tried ironing it out, but to little avail. I also tried spraying them with SSII and wrapping in Kraft paper, and clamping for a week between a couple of straight boards. Didn't work. Any ideas? They are a little better, but still won't sit flat on a table. This wood has been in my "controlled" shop for nearly 2 years now, stickered, up on a shelf. It probably was not weighted though, as I didn't know I needed to keep weight on top of the stack. Of all the sets I had stickered, this is the only one that is wonky.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

You could make a heat press. Remove any wax before heating.

I have successfully flattened backs and sides with my heat blanket ... spritz, wrap in foil, lay on the table saw with the blanket, then a good solid board, then add weights (I put like 80 lbs on it). I heat the whole thing like I am bending, full heat for about 2-3 minutes, then turn down, timer for 15. let sit for a couple hours or overnight.

One partcular set of coco was badly cupped after coming off the resaw .. 3/16 thick, and a good 3/8 of cup on 8 inches wide .... flattened that baby right out.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Maybe your dry cleaner will help you out - ? They usually have the large iron presses. My father is a tailor and has one in the basement of his house. If my wood warps that bad - that is what I would try. My advise is only as good as my experience, which is not much.... get it ? grain of salt... but it is an idea.

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

I forgot that I have a heating blanket. Never have used it for bending. Maybe it'll work for this. Getting it all hot enough at once has been the problem. Maybe that'll solve it. Cupped 3/8", that's nothing. This stuff was off by more than an inch. It was flat when I put it in the shop.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

my blanket is only 6 inches wide ... it will work on most back halves.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Thanks for your help, Tony!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Here is what I can give you..

I always see some cupping when wood comes in from a supplier. It takes a couple days to a couple weeks to get over the environmental shock... This depends on the wood... Spruce seems to take a day or 2, Super dense hardwoods seem to take a couple weeks.

STICKER the wood in a pile-- It needs air circulation all the way around it. Don't set it flat on cement or flat in a pile with all the boards laying against eachother. If space is at a premium, stand it up on top of a bookshelf or a dresser leaning back against a wall so that the base of each piece is 1-2 inches from the last piece.

If it was flat when they shipped it, it will almost always flatten back out within a couple weeks once the moisture level in the wood settles back down.

As Tony said, if you want to make wood cup instantly... take one of those top or back sets and sit it in the car on a hot day... Belt sanders will do the same thing.. It seems to help to flip the wood so that heat is put in on both sides.

Good luck

John

ok thanks for the responses -

I just planed my Spanish Cedar neck wood, to 4'x 3 inches x just a little over 3/4. I was about to cut it into two pieces, one for the neck and the other for the parts for a stacked heel. But I noticed a little bit of a bow in the wood. Just a little. Should I cut it keeping the straightest piece for the actually neck ? After cutting should I plane the bow out of it ? It is possible isn't it ? Or could it be because of the high humidity in my garage. I don;t mind waiting a couple of days to see what happens.

thanks

John

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

One more question - then that it -

thanks everyone by the way -

I stacked my back and side set and will not use it until winter or spring 2010, I have not sealed the edges since it was a t 6 to 9% humidity according to the seller. I plan to do my cutting, planing, sanding etc in the garage, humidity is like the outside, anywhere from 20 to 65% on a rainy day. Temperature in the winter will be between 35 degree F at worst and 65 degrees at best.

My home office, inside, will be 30% to 45% humidity and between 65 degrees to 70 degrees - this is where I plan to keep the project during the gluing etc. So the messy part of it will be done in the garage, the quiet cleaner or easier to clean stuff will be inside.

Where is the best place for me to store my stacked wood ? Is outside in the garage ok ?

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

I would store your wood inside if possible. Also, I would let your neck wood stabilize inside your home for a couple of weeks before cutting anything.

A lot of mositure comes through a concrete floor so I wouldn't store wood on it.

I have the same issue as you......I don't have a humidity controlled environment. I leave everything inside where it's air conditioned.......but I take it out to the shop or garage for cutting, sanding, etc., then back inside. It's not ideal.....but I don't have another option at this point.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Truckjohn - John




Do you mean that I can sticker a set and then it does not have to lay flat ? I can stand it up against a wall or stand it upright between a wall and an end table or file cabinet for example ?
My stickering is tight enough that the boards will sit straight now while stickered without any weight. My stickers are 3/4" x 3/4" red oak sticks - so they are pretty tough, and they are tied tight with zipties.
If I do not have to lay the stickered sets flat, I can store a lot more tonewood.

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX