Official Luthiers Forum!

I have been using Hot Rod truss rods for a while. I am fairly pleased with them. I have never had any trouble out of them or anything, but I am looking for more torque without more bulk. I have recently started straightening my necks dead straight after tuning up to tension for leveling the frets under string tension. But it is kind of a strain for the hot rod. I have to take the string tension off and really put on a back bow, and then tighten the strings up to tension and hope it is still straight by the time I get there. I am wondering if the popular two-way truss rods by LMI and Allied would have more torque than the hot rod? I have used the Gotoh rod before. The big bulky one that Martin has used in some of theirs. I'm pretty sure it would have more torque, but it just seems hard to fit into a low profile neck. Any info would be appreciated.
Here are the links to the two rods I'm referring to.
http://www.alliedlutherie.com/truss_rods.htm
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Truss+Rods%2FNeck+Parts&NameProdHeader=Truss+Rod+%2D+Martin%99+Style+Truss+Rod

Personally, I prefer the LMI double action trussrod. I did use the HotRod for a few guitars, but had some wierd twisting issues on one neck from the way the rods oppose each other. They will naturally want to twist since both threaded rods are free to do so.

Not the case with the LMI rods, where the flat bar is stationary with the nut welded to it...it simply can't do anything but curve the way you intend it to.

My two cents!

I've always used LMI rods, apart from my first guitar when I used a hot-rod. Now,however, I use the new Allied rod, it is a far superior rod to the other two, the gearing effect of the different threads make adjustment much smoother. To me now it's a no-brainer, the Allied rod is the best.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I use only the allied rods for all my guitars,acoustics and electrics and i love em.They take up less room in the neck than alot of the others and are very stable.Might i add, they won't rust either like the others.I wouldn't want rusty threads down the road on my rods.

The Gotoh rod sold as "Martin Style" isn't what Martin uses. I really like the rod that Martin uses. It requires a ~ 1/4" wide by .400" deep slot, but is a little bigger the 1st 1 1/2". You can get them from Guitarmakers Connection or from John Hall (Bluescreek)

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I stopped the hot rod as I have had failure with them. The Martin rod is my favorite as it is a well built and solid piece. I think is not too different from the LMI rod. Not as much twisting and a solid feel with a heavier rod. I had the silver solder snap on a few hot rods . I also like to run 2 small carbon fiber rods along with the taper of the neck to help control neck twist.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Here is another vote for the Martin two way rod, they work real well and are easy to obtain. I figure if they are good enough for the Martin company with the kind of R&D they do I can't go to far wrong.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I've used the Gotoh/Martin steel channel one, the Martin aluminum channel one-way and the Allied/Blanchard. I like the Allied because of the reduction in torque due to the difference in thread pitches used at either end. I like the Martin-types because they add stiffness and can be glued in the length of the rod.

Rods without channels work by pushing up on the fretboard, somewhere around the 5 to 7th frets, and push down at the nut and the neck joint end, sometimes leading to a blowout either at the fretboard, or more commonly, the back of the neck beneath the nut like what Steve Smith experienced recently. The channel ones can be epoxied into the neck the whole length of the channel so that the "unbowing" forces are not concentrated at three points along the rod, but rather are distributed evenly along the length of the channel. In addition, they do indeed add stiffness just by installing them, even without any tension. The Allied/Blanchard ones are great when adjusting, but add no stiffness.

I think I'm drifting back to the Martin-type.

Pat

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Funny, I've never had a problem with the Hot Rods, and I've been using them for ten years. I had weld failure on the LMI rods -- the welds were pretty, but they weren't welds they were more like fills where the welds laid over the conjoining pieces but didn't penetrate to make an actual weld.

Jason, I suspect you had a twist in the neck because that neck wanted to twist, not because of the rod. If installed in a tight slot, there is little place to go but within the slot and that isn't going to have the leverage to cause the neck to twist.

Same here. Been using them for 5 years. Probably on fewer guitars than you David, but nonetheless enough to say I'm happy with them.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

+1

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

I've broken the heads off of 4-6 Hot Rods and about 2-4 of the LMI rods in my electrics. I've gone back (down) to a "Loaded" single action rod. So with some simple prep in the production process I can get my necks to flex both ways and I don't have to worry about my customers (or myself) breaking off the heads.

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Todd Lunneborg
http://www.tlguitars.com/
http://www.fretboardjournal.com/

I have used LMI, Hot Rod, Martin single action, and the new 2 way Martin truss rod. My favorite is the new Martin 2 way rod, due mainly to it's beefiness and ability to thin the neck a little more if desired,, also I like the larger allen key which seems to make adjustments easier.

Chuck

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I've come to like the Allied rods and have had no issues with them. Mind you, I've only ever used a home made job like the Cumpiano book details, one LMI rod and 6 Allied rods.

I am interested in the new Martin 2 way rods, but I also prefer to have the adjustment at the headstock. You guys who use the Martin 2 way rod, would it be acceptable for adjusting at the head?

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Allied rod & two CF bars - I also have started to epoxy a layer of 0.020" CF sheet into the bottom of the channel, I think it helps to prevent blow-out.

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

I have a Hot Rod to go in my first build and the channel is already cut in the neck to fit....complete with a stip of mahogany to go between the rod and fingerboard.

I don't know the size of the new martin 2-way rod. Would I be able to swap and use the new Martin 2-way rod in the existing channel cut in my neck? (which fits the Hot Rod perfectly)

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Todd, the neck is not assembled.......it is just as I received it from Hannali-Moon (sp?) Was just wondering how difficult it would be to switch and use the new Martin truss rod instead of the Hot Rod at this stage so thanks for giving me those dimensions.

If the Martin rod doesn't require a cover between the fingerboard and rod, the depth might be close to correct without the cover between the rod and fingerboard. I'll have to check on that. I would need to widen the slot for sure.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Just broke the head off the hot rod in my latest 12.
I have a Martin 2 way that I got from John, but it's a 14 fret. Todd, I looked on the Guitarmaker's site and I'm confused. they have the 13BAR0001 (which I have), the 13BAR and the 13BAR12. Are those the same as the first one?

What on earth are people doing to break the head off the Hot Rods?? I use the ones with the 1/8" allen head and have never had a problem. I've never had a failure, never had one stick. I also disagree that the distribution of pressure on the Hot Rod is subtantitively different than the LMI or Allied rods. If you make your slot fit properly, Once enough tension is in the rod to move the neck, it isn't so localized. I have these custom made for me in different lengths for my baritone guitars and basses. I don't use a cover strip, I merely bed the rod in silicone to prevent rattling. If memory serves, this is the same rod that is used by Santa Cruz uses, but they use a different head on it.

I use both rods .
The Hotrod is now my choice for two reasons.
It actually weighs a few grams less and it never rattles .
After the first LMI rod rattle I covered it with gasket (automotive) material & this cured that .
Plus the Hotrod works perfectly -it also spreads it's area of adjustment(not just the middle of the neck) more than the LMI style rod.

But use whatever works for you .
I used to make my own but they ended up costing me more .

My 2 cents !
Mike

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Mike Collins

I can tell you that the problem is that the metal properties are changed with the silver solder process. Most of the times the soldering is fine , but the process must be exceeded every once in a while . This changes the temper of the metal , in all the cases that the head snapped , the metal was over heated and brittle.
The Martin 2 way rod is a much better design .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I'm thinking about giving this two way Martin truss rod a try. Are most of you gluing this rod in? Any need for a wood spline over the rod? I always put my adjuster nuts at the soundhole end. I know on some rods you have to put a spline in just to get the adjusting nut lower, so it will fit under your soundboard instead of level with.

Martin does glue in the rod with silicone but not to glue it , more to fill voids. I have used tite bond for that with good results , and to be 100% honest , I have glued them in and not glued them in . I will turn the rod to make it snug up so it won't rattle and cannot tell the difference.
I don't thing it really matters all that much.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Todd, thanks for the info. I'll give 'em a call.
John, do you have the 12 fret rod?

I just checked John's web site and only saw the 1-way Martin rod. John, do you have the 2-way rods too?

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"