Official Luthiers Forum!

You have to pay just to read it. I have no problem with paying to post items, but paying just to read it seems a little odd. There are probably reasons though.

Why is it like that? I would use it more if everyone could see it. I don't mind paying the small fee to list things but I wish there was a larger group of people who could access it.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

Lance and I talked about this for a long time before we even offered a classifieds section. We are routinely confronted with commercial enterprises trying to sell to our membership without being sponsors. This undermines the entire sponsorship process. They are persistant and sometimes clever (having "new members" post glowing reviews etc.)

Our concern about a classifieds section was that this would only exacerbate this problem. Sellers posing as individuals would really be a back door for businesses who want access to our community but don't want to help support it. So for $11.88 they could sell all they like.

Making the classifieds just accessible to subscribers helps curb some of these problems.

I know there are flaws in this thinking... I do, but as I said Lance and I talked about this for more than a year before we finally decided to launch this area. We tried to make it excessively cheap (.99 / month), so I think this solution accomplishes what we were after. It lets members sell to one another and discourages unsponsoring vendors.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

It's worth a buck a month for me to see what's for sale.

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jw ( o)===:::

I second this motion!! I just bought a couple of things from Filippo!!

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

I cannot help but notice Filippo's comment and how it might relate to me (in part) and my comments about posting items for sale outside the classifieds section. I will say nothing more about this, its been dealt with.

What is most troubling to me is the rise in personal attacks either direct or indirect as in the above post. Whether that is directed at me (in part) or towards anybody else, it is totally out of place and inappropriate for this forum. People new to this forum will have NO idea why such things are being said and most likely be turned off. Its not our job to cause people to "move on". It is totally natural for folks to disagree. It is between them only. Piling on is natural too, but really ugly.

When I first joined, there was a spat going on where someone publicly stated he was leaving the forum for something I had no understanding of. I remember speaking with the fellow via PMs, but he wisely told me nothing of the personalities involved. It was really sad.

I have made mistakes in the past and being human, I will probably make a few more. If I sound like I do not understand my own transgressions, sorry, but I do. I am smart enough to notice when I am being targeted indirectly. Others will be too, and really, this needs to stop. Following folks from thread to thread and posting indirectly is obvious. Its one reason a very good guy here stopped posting frequently.

Lets all declare a truce in this area of direct and indirect attacks, and of pointing out the flaws with regards to the classifieds section. Lets all try harder (me included) of the letting the mods do their jobs. Lets all get back to discussing guitars and being kind to the newbie.

Peace,

Mike

Mike, I'll jump in, because your post reminds of something that happened to me a lttle while ago (and happens to everyone once in a while).

What happened: I noticed my fly is open. Now I'm teaching at a university and I noticed that shortly after class. Immediately my mind went crazy..."Was that cheeky smile one of my female students gave me because she noticed?", "Was that guy in the last row laughing because he noticed?", "He probably pointed it out to his neighbor, that's why they were talking!" and so on. Truth is - I stand most of the time behind a desk with a computer and probably no one noticed because I'm wearing something over my fly too.

But it illustrates one thing: self-awareness. As humans we have the tendency to think we're the center of the universe. And it makes sense, because we observe everything only through our eyes, looking through the glasses of our experiences.

How does this relate to your post - well when I read Filippo's post, I immediately linked it to Brock's post. The concern around misbehavior relating to Brock's and Lance's decision to make the classified section as it is, in order to avoid misbehaving sellers undermining the sponsorship stuff. Not once did the thought occur to me that Filippo was attacking you indirectly (and yes, I read the recent exchange about the classifieds in which you were involved). I would be highly surprised if Filippo's comment was directed at you. This exchange may still be very salient for you, because you were deeply involved in it, but for most of us here it's like - we noticed, but we moved on. Just because "recently your fly was open and you noticed" doesn't mean, that all the behavior around you is linked to your fly, even though you may experience like that.

So I wouldn't worry. I don't think anybody here on the forum wants to attack you - they're generally very nice and helpful people.

cheers, Christian

Mike, I read the exchange in the classified - never connected it here in this thread. I like your spirit of truce. It's nice for someone to speak it and everyone to hear it once in a while.

Alright guys... point taken. My fly was open. . and as such, I guess I am a bit hyper-sensitive.

What I really like about Brock & Lance is the fact the heavy handed moderating does not occur here. We generally get to work things out ourselves. I think MY problem is I have (in the last few months) had very few chances toget into the shop... kids, sports, travel, work.

Filippo, Christian, Randy, thank you for kindly pointing at my open fly.

OK, you guys get back to the shop, I'm stuck here at the beach.

Mike