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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:07 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 636
Location: Nr London, UK
I've recently bought Dan Erlewines' Guitar Finishing book and was amazed how good it was with the vast array of recipes and techniques. I'd like to do a Tobacco Sunburst and my only gripe with the book is that it was mainly directing you to StewMac colours, and shipping to the UK is prohibitive. In my local hardware shop I can buy alcohol and water based stains, and I'm assuming that I can use artists watercolour paints to dilute and alter water based products, and oil paints to alter the alcohol ones, my other assumption is that acrylic paints are pigment based and shouldn't be used as you would start to hide the grain.

I can also get coloured inks and aren't sure what the base is of if they would be useful. The other thing I'd like but can't source over here is EM6000 lacquer, nitro is tricky to get but I would rather not spray it. I can get a brand called chestnut here is they're description of their product
Quote:
Chestnut Acrylic Lacquer A hardwearing water based lacquer, a good alternative to solvent based products. It dries to a very high gloss, whilst drying the resin components cross-link to form a coating which is actually tougher than Melamine Lacquer. Apply with brush or roller, allowing two hours between coats. We recommend the use of acrylic sanding sealer first to give a smooth base on which to build the lacquer


Their other product is
Quote:
Chestnut Melamine Lacquer This finish will give protection against both heat and water. It can be used alone or, for better results, over a cellulose based sanding sealer. Several thin coats provide a superior finish. Quick drying due to cellulose base. The melamine dries to a gloss finish and can then be matted using 0000 Steel Wool, or brought to a gloss by applying wax with a pad of 0000 Steel Wool and buffing to a shine. (Clean brushes in cellulose thinners see Solvents, Tools, Cleaners & Sundries section)


Now these are sold by the litre (2 pints) how much would I need for a guitar and which would be more fit for purpose? I've also heard both good and bad about a product
Quote:
Rustin's Plastic Coating

Universally accepted as one of the toughest finishes available. Something akin to liquid formica, it is a 2 part cold cure finish which dries chemically after the addition of a hardener. It has a high solids content thus giving a high build per coat. It can be used on a variety of surfaces but not on metal or over paint. It can be brushed, applied with a roller or sprayed. There is no tougher finish for kitchen worktops, bar tops, tables or anywhere subjected to heat, solvents, water spillage etc. Plastic coating dries clear and glossy and can be left as such or given a satin finish by rubbing down with 0000 steel wool and wax, matt by using zero steel wool or brought to a high gloss mirror finish using burnishing cream, when it resembles a French polished surface but with none of the disadvantages in upkeep. For wooden or cork floors a special type F plastic coating is available to beautify and protect your floor. See Floor Finishes section for Floor Plastic Coating. (Coverage 1litre to 15m². Reaches maximum heat and solvent resistance after 5-7 days).
and aren't sure about it.

Any advice welcome

Cheers guys

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:17 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 3081
John, I do sunbursts on mandolins all the time, and what you are looking for is dye not stain. Stains contain pigments and they mask the grain of the wood. I would stay away from analine dyes as they fade. Trans-Tint is the name of the company that makes the Stew-Mac dyes, and if they are not available in the UK, there must be something similar on your side of the pond. Try google. If I remember right, they are called metal acid dyes...
Artist materials might work, but you would have to see if they dissolve completely and then worry about fading.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:36 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:17 am
Posts: 1383
Location: Canada
John, contact Jeff Wiess at Target Coatings....I'd be really surprised if both lacquer & transtint are not availible in UK, but he's a great help. I've also used the similar "ColorFX" dyes, which if I remember, originate in Europe.

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Milton, ON


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:43 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 636
Location: Nr London, UK
Hi Dave,
That is another problem I've joined the forum and pm'd Jeff no reply, and the site doesn't accept what I type in for the security code tried a number of times must be an idiot, I'll phone chestnut and specifically ask about the burn-in properties and if it shows witness lines when sanding through layers as I've been advised and then muck about with dyes I can get here.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:53 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:17 am
Posts: 1383
Location: Canada
John, I've e-mailed him (off forum...never joined) before & gotten prompt replies ...address must be in there somewhere (I no longer have it). If it was me, I'd AVOID alternatives 'till positive Target not available. Can you contact local builders.... I'm sure they'll help.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:42 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:12 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Yorkshire, UK
First name: Brian
Last Name: MacDougall
Hello John,
Touchstone Tonewoods, David Dykes and Craft Supplies all carry a decent range of dyes and stains - don't know if you've had a look at what they've got. If you look around the internet for companies that supply Konig, Mohawk and Morrells products in the UK, you might find they'll have what you're looking for - Konig aerosol lacquers are particularly good. I use nitro products from all of them but they do acrylics too. I've heard of melamine lacquer and plastic coating being used for guitars but I've never tried them - I just use nitro or shellac.
Cheers,
Bri


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 636
Location: Nr London, UK
I'll do a little more digging people tend to use tru-oil, nitro, french polish, 2 pack floor finish, solvent based furniture lacquer one orders from StewMac..... I can't find any using target products, it seems to be a purely American product for the moment.

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