Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm installing a K&K Pure Mini in a friend's guitar today. First time doing one of these. Anybody have any tips or tricks you've found that make this go more easily?

Thanks!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I don't have any Todd but I would like to know what you think about the sound when you you finish it.

It's a fairly simple processs. I've done two of them. The instructions are pretty clear. You'll need a good mirror to make sure you have them positioned properly. I use super-glue to glue on the little disks. Should take about an hour.

Thanks, elysne. I have all the instructions, and most likely it will go without a hitch; I'm just thinking if anyone has any extra little tips or tricks from their experience of doing these, it might be helpful to hear them before I dive in. I also wonder if anyone has done both the manual installation and jig installation methods and if they would recommend one method over the other. This is a pinned bridge, so the jig method is applicable; but maybe someone who's done both might suggest I skip the jig...??

Chris, I'll let you know about the sound.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I believe their current instructions are good. They used to tell you to stick the transducers to your finger tips with double sided tape and feel around to position them. A few years ago I made a post on the AGF or UMGF about making a cardboard template to locate all three tranducers. That is what the current instructions are isn't it? I don't even use a mirror but I'll installed a BUNCH of them.

Tonewise, K&K pickups(or any other SBT) don't work for me. I kinda drag my pinky on the top (like Doc Watson) and the K&K picks this up real loud. If you touch the top while playing a K&K probably isn't for you.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I used the jig and it worked just fine. I'm getting ready to do another one and I'll do it the same way again.

As far as the sound goes I had sensitivity issues with the top until I switched over to their Pure XLR preamp and now I'm very happy with the tone and the sensitivity on the top is back to what I consider a normal level. More telling on the tone issue is that my music director and our sound guy were both favorably impressed when we add the Pure XLR preamp to the mix.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Or palm beat the bridge?

That puts a drummer out of work

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Here's what I do as I never read the instructions (they are for sissy's). First get some latex or similar(ok I'm a sissy too) gloves. Drill your half inch hole for the jack. I arrange them so that the wires a heading forward towards the bridge so that the wires will be easier to deal with later. Put two pins in the bridge either 1 & 2 or 5 & 6. Stick your hand thru the hole and get used to the location of those pins so that you can center the dot in front of that spot, your finger tip should land right between the pins and locate very quickly and easily so that the sensor dot picks up those two strings. I use a little tiny piece of double sided tape on my finger to hold the sensor in place with the wire running up my finger. Practice a little more and then put some (not much) glue on it and carefully stick it in there feeling the pins to locate your self and press it home. Hold it forever or at least 100 seconds before removing your finger.
When you stick the pickup on your finger you should do a trial on the outside of the guitar checking to see that it is in the right area forward of the pins to locate it directly under the saddle as that changes across the saddle of course.
Then move the pins (don't just ad more or you'll confuse your finger) and so on the the next two pairs of strings.
After they're all in, use a stick to guide the jack thru the hole and twist the wire gently until they are not touching anything, usually just about a turn and a half puts a nice gentle swirl in the wires and keeps them from rattling inside the guitar. Then tighten the jack and your done.
Hope this helps.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I use a male jack soldered to or crimped to a hanger to pull the jack in.

Piece of cake, make the jig and it goes well, follow the instructions and practice a few times to get the feel for getting the jig in position. The glue they supply works real well.

My only issue is to get a natural sound in a higher volume I need to back of on the bass control on the amp if using without a preamp.

Maybe another video topic Chris.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

When you making it?

Todd,
I've never done one, but I've seen it done about 5 times from the local luthier. He also doesn't follow the instructions. It takes him less than 10 min to install one of these. First he drills a 1/16" pilot hole and then uses the step drill bit to make it a 1/2" hole. Then he places one of those stew mac mirrors that fold up into the sound hole. He places a little christmas light in the sound hole to give it light. Practice holding the little sensor and reaching into the sound hole to put it in place. Then with the bridge pins removed, he peeks through the bridge pin holes and can see the exact location of where the saddle will be in relation to the bridge pin holes. Make sure to try to get the pads directly under the saddle. He puts the super glue in a thick pile in the middle of the metal sensor so when he presses it to the bridge plate the glue squeezes out, but not too much. Do this for all 3 sensors and your done. He then has a 1/4" jack mounted on a long dowel that he reaches in to the 1/2" end hole and then puts it into the hole of the pickup jack. Pull the dowel out and the end jack is now correctly in place. You may need to adjust the nut on the end of the jack to not have too much of the thread sticking out. Screw it all down and your done! Wish I had pics for you. Next time I watch him do one I'll take pics for you all. I'm amazed at how fast he is!

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Woody, Steve, John, Fred, Tracy - Thanks for all your input. Much appreciated!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I position my bridges with 1/8 holes on the outside of the saddle slot so I use these to get the spacing correct. I use a thin piece of hardwood also. I drill the 1/8 holes the correct space apart on the hardwood and insert dowels so they are sticking up on the top of the guitar. I slide the hardwood piece over the dowels and then glue the sensors to the bottom of that piece. You can do it literally right over the saddle slot. Then I push the dowels so they are sticking out on the inside of the guitar and position the wood piece with the sensors glued to it over the dowels and glue the whole piece in. It is very quick and very accurate. The only probelm is that it works fine when it is your guitar and you can feel free to drill through the bridge like that. On someone else's guitar it would probably require a conversation.

I will be interested to hear what you think of the sound Todd. The couple I have installed I have been so-so on but I have never tried any of the fancy preamps which everyone seems to agree makes the sound much improved.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

I've put in around 10. Did the early ones with the StewMac Mirror looking through the bridge pin holes and using the tape on the glove thing to position. Later made the jig and I like it a lot better. That's how I do it now. I'm going to make a new jig with clear acrylic instead of cardboard so I can see for sure where the transducer will be during the trial run. If you use unslotted bridge pins you have to be sure that the transducers don't obstruct the string slots and with the cardboard jig it's tough to be sure. I just use a 1/4"dowel to guide the jack in. The StewMac stepped reamer is really slick for enlarging the end pin hole.
I'm very happy with the tone and have had no complaints from clients. I do have one guy that was a professional Nashville lead player and still gigs all the time, sometimes with high stage levels. We did a K&K with a stereo jack and a pigtail inside the guitar that he hooks up to a Sunrise soundhole pickup. He can blend both. He is a picky guy as far as tone and had a well installed Highlander before. He likes the K&K/Sunrise combo better than anything he's used before and feedback has not been an issue.
TJK

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I dampen some wadded up paper towel w/superglue kicker, and rub the bridgeplate with it. I use a piece of plastic mirror stock w/a magnet stuck to the back, and a magnet outside, to hold it on place.
I have a low wattage compact fluorescent bulb that I drop inside. I use a jig for each individual disc, with a pea-sized blob of blu-tack, or similar, to hold the disc to the jig. I find that using a brush-on superglue, rather than the supplied gel, gives me better coupling with the top.

Often, the D&G disc tends to sound strident & midrangey to me, so I'll install it on the soundhole side of the X-brace. Breedloves & other JLD-equipped guitars do well with is configuration, of necessity.

On classicals, I drill two tiny holes through the saddle slot, feed some monofilament line through them, and connect a "trapeze" jig, that I stick all four discs to, and install them all, in one shot.

Another method, that I've used on occasion, is to use a bridge clamp to position an individual disc, and hold it against the bridgeplate while the superglue kicks off; you know where you are inside, from where the clamp is, outside.

I ALWAYS look at the installation area with my mirror, so that there are no surprises.

Hope this helps.

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

Oh, yeah--whittle a faux "head", on a 1/4" dowel, and make your jack pulling MUCH less of a headache!

My puller is a 1/4" plug ground down, and soldered into a piece of brass tubing.

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

Thanks Burton, Terence, and Jeffrey, for all your input. Definitely helpful stuff, and much appreciated!

When I looked in the guitar, I found I had to do some work on the bridge plate, so I did that today, and the pickup will go in tomorrow.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Hi Todd,
I've done several of these. As many have said, just follow the instructions, make the little cardboard jig and it's easy. You'll have it installed in minutes. The amazing thing about them is that they sound so good without a pre-amp. In fact, I actually think they sound best without one.

Thanks, Todd and Loren, for your replies.

David Collins sent me a link to this thread on the UMGF, where he shows a tool he made to make this installation quicker and easier, since he does a lot of them. Anybody here who finds themselves doing a lot of these might be interested in his solution. Check it out:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... -Tool.html

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Thanks for the link. I use pinless bridges though.

Everything went fine with the installation and it sounds good. Now, to elaborate on that a bit...

I found the little jig method to not be super precise. There's a fair amount of wiggle room in the way it works, so the transducers ended up placed well enough, but not any more precisely than I could have done just using my (gloved) fingers. In fact, I'm convinced I could have placed them more precisely just using my fingers. With a mirror and a light in there, I found I could see the bridge plate very well by looking through the bridge pin holes, and place a finger on any precise spot by eye, not having to rely on feel at all. And I could have eyeballed the placement in relation to the pin holes to locate the transducers under the saddle without difficulty. The cardboard jig, being opaque, means you can't actually see exactly where the transducer has landed until the glue has set and you've removed the jig.

I had never really tried peering in through the bridge pin holes like that before. It's good to know how well I can see the bridge plate that way. That will come in handy in the future for purposes other than pickup installations, I'm sure.

The other thing I found to be a pain about the jig process is that it left this sticky, gooey putty stuck to the transducers, and a little on the bridge plate around the transducers. The most time consuming part of the process was trying to clean all that out of there. It didn't come off easily. This is another reason I will do the next one by lightly taping the transducers to my gloved fingertips rather than using the jig.

As for the sound, I can't say I gave it a very good test, really. I plugged it into my Genz-Benz Shenandoah Junior amp in my shop. I was happy with the sound, but I'd have to hear it through more systems in more different environments to draw many conclusions. There certainly was some feedback (at not very high volume) and some odd resonances, but that probably had more to do with the room (small, concrete floor, lots of hard surfaces) than anything else. The quality of the sound was nice - it seemed like a reasonably accurate likeness of the acoustic sound of the guitar, and a generally good sound in its own right. The guitar's owner is happy so far.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/