Official Luthiers Forum!

Hiyas! I'm giving some thought to trying to build a guiter at some point. Right now I'm working on a small walnut writing desk as my first piece of fine furniture, so I have a reasonably setup woodshop and am learning how all the tools work.

The reason I'm thinking to try making a guitar is that my wife has been making noises about wanting to learn to play. She'd rather have an acoustic than an electric and there's just no room in the budget right now. On the other hand, I do have a bit of wood piled up and a shop full of tools and hopefully I could invest in the hardware bit by bit as I progress on the build. I think I'm getting laid off in the fall, so there will be some free time maybe coming up too. Neither of us currently plays.

I guess the first question is it reasonable for me to go ahead and start a build? I've got plenty of free maple that I could resaw and glue up as needed. How costly will the hardware be? I know that this must have a wide range of answers, so let's say I want my building abilities to be the limiting factor of how the instrument will sound, not the hardware I buy.

Assuming that I work up the courage to move forward, should the first attempt be just acoustic or is it ok to try to make an electric capable (but not necessary) acoustic? I'm sure there's a fancy word for this - I'm still learning new woodworking vocabulary every day too. Regardless, for my first build I don't know that I'll get involved much with inlays and what not - I think I'd like to build one that just works before risking destroying something with fanciness. DAMHIKT.

Are there any tutorial type threads here for first-time builders? Or any good external websites for this?

Thanks!

Welcome Mark,

I know some folks can make guitars on the cheap but my experience is that Lutherie is pretty expensive. You should get the book Guitarmaking-Tradition and Technology and it will give you a pretty fair idea of tooling needed on the minimum side of things. Check out the Stew-mac and LMI websites to get an idea of how expensive things can get.

The board index on this forum has a pretty complete tutorial section.

I have no idea if an electric is any easier, but there is an electric building section on the board index as well.

Good luck and have fun.

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http://www.booneguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stephen-Boone-guitar-builder/488208541257210

Check out this book by Jonathan Kinkead.

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Ac ... 401&sr=8-1

He shows you how to do it with basic tools.

Welcome to the forum Mark.

Stephen and Mark have given you some good starting advice. I don't want to discorage you, but this hobby is not for the faint of wallet.

I did, however, build a nice little guitar for $161.00. It wasn't my first, so I already had the all the tools.

Steve

Thanks for the replies! I ordered "Guitarmaking-Tradition and Technology" today.

I have a few woodworking tools already. I hope it's ok for me to ask questions while waiting for it to arrive.

What sort of specialized luthiers' tools are really needed? Looking through some older threads here it looks like I already have most if not all of the recommended woodworking tools. The only possible exception is that I don't have a laminate trimmer - hopefully one of my three routers would work for that job though.

Is it better for the first build to be acoustic or electric?

I'm sure there will be more later. Thanks!

Things to think of are, will you build one ore more then one, (just for ,your wife ? ) whe then might have to wait a long time for the guitar, in this case I suggest you to buy a cheap one while building. It sound like you know what your doing though, as you bought a great book by cumpiano ! . tools costs depend on how you want to proceed, if your really good with hand tools then it might not be so costly, if not then machines might cost alot, also when buying machines, dont buy the cheap machines, get good ones in the long run you will be more happy that way. and they also make a better job. Check out Stewmac.com and other stores for special tools for guitarbuilding. A laminate trimmer is a better tool for guitarbuilding than routers as they are to big for the more delicate jobs like cutting the binding channels etc. check out the Bosch colt, great machine. good handplanes are also a must if you dont have a machine for this, and they are expensive. Lots of tools are built for the job by ourselves ! . Also best tool is reading from this forum.

This is a great page for you http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=17905

Good Luck and welcome to the forum. Lars.

Mark, if you really just want to build one, I would suggest finding a class (check your locate community college or Woodcraft) or a luthier who has classes and build with someone looking over your shoulder. You'll get what you are looking for in a timely manner and without a huge outlay on tools. And that isn't a small thing. Because while this is a great way to relax, it is not cheap. There are numerous tools that are specific to building and things get costly quickly. If you plan on making more than one, come on in, the water if fine. But, if you just want to build a special gift for your wife, pay for the course and the help.

Our tutorial section http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10117

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Aoibeann

Mark,

In answer to building and electric or acoustic I would go with what it is you want in a guitar. The big challenges would be similar with different details.

The tool list that Mike posted the link to is a pretty fair list in my opinion. ( I see that I managed to not purchase a couple of tools on the list but not many)

I forgot to mention to you that a fully serviced kit from one of our suppliers will mitigate the need for most of the specialty tools and still provide a challenging build experience. Check out Blues Creek, Stew-mac, and the LMI kit wizard.

You will want a laminate trimmer in any case, they are not very expensive and are great in regular woodworking as well.

Clamps are one expense hard to avoid. I made a go bar deck to avoid some of the clamp purchases and still wish I had more clamps. I will be buying more in time.

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http://www.booneguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stephen-Boone-guitar-builder/488208541257210

I'm starting to wonder if it would be helpful to list the major tools I already have in my shop to get an idea of what the additional tool outlay will be.

I'll look for a cheap acoustic for now, but will go ahead and at least seriously consider my own build. If nothing else, if my wife ends up not being serious about things after I've built one, I'll be able to nag her for once commenting on the time and effort put into her very special husband-built guitar. Speaking of nagging, she's been making noises about too much tool collecting and not enough woodworking lately - this will be another benefit of a build.

If nothing else, I figure I'll get some experience with wood bending by making an acoustic which is a skill that would likely be very useful to woodworking in general.

Thanks for all of the thoughts - it's very helpful and a warm welcome!

Mark,

Take a browse over at Kathy Matsushita's site.

http://home.comcast.net/~kathymatsushita/

She has a great tools list, and some awesome build documentation that will give you a good idea what tools she uses for various jobs.

J

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Jim Hansen

Hi Mark

I have built 5 guitars over the last 3.5 years and do not have anywhere close to the 7,000.00 of tools as stated in the link to the Sylvan Wells list. My 1st was a kit and most of the tools used were around the shop already, I did not spend much on guitar specific tools to build it. That said over the next 4 which were not kits, I added probably 500.00 in tools per guitar and now have a fairly well equipped shop. but still no where near the 7,000.00. There are still tools I would like to get and eventually will. Use Craig's list and the local classifieds to add to the collection. I spent less than 1/2 actual retail price for my machinery by searching for good used equipment eg. Band saw, thickness sander, table saw and belt sander, and remember that I can easily sell these for what I have in them if I need to upgrade to larger or more powerful tools.

Don't let the initial cost get in the way, get started with minimal tools and try guitar building, but remember it can become an addictive activity.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

All I can tell is my experiences I'm unemployed, with health issues which I doubt will let me return to full time work in the near future, I was interested in making an acoustic so bought the kinkade book which I thoughly recommend a must in my opinion, I have a lot of hand tools and stuff from all the DIY i do I was reading it at my folk club and a guy who used to make snooker tables came in the next week with wood for the back, sides and neck he'd resawn from an old leg not book matched but what the hell I thought.

I made the mold from off cuts from the kitchen worktops, all my braces and lining material came from the moulding section in the hardware store I searched though for quarter sawn stuff, the neck and tail blocks were oak I scavenged from someone else's scraps, I bought a student grade top, and started slowly working my way through the book to the guys plans searching the archives and posting questions here when I got stuck and I muddled through.

Here are a few links that might be of interest
My first viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20811
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21409&hilit=guitar

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Well, I guess at this point I'll wait for the book to arrive and give it a read. The only major power tool that it seems I'm missing is a thicknessing sander, which I already want for my general woodworking hobby. I seem to be getting by without one with my walnut desk top glueup - in the worst case I might just put some PSA 80 grit sandpaper on to a length of angle iron and apply some elbow grease to the solution.

Thanks also for the link to the tutorials - it was kind of a small world moment, as I made my first shooting board yesterday to use with my desk project and one of the first tutorials was the Luthier's shooting board. Mine might be a hair short for guitarmaking - it is only a bit less than 540 mm ( 54 cm, 21.25") from fence to end of board. The board and fence are ash, the runner is birch plywood from Home Depot (had some on hand - not Baltic) and the plane in the pic is a Lie-Nielsen #62 low angle jack. That little pile of cherry curls gave me a great sense of satisfaction.

I used a method learned at a recent woodworking show in Saratoga, NY. The fence is a bit proud of (sticking out from) the board itself - after the fence was attached, the sides of the assembly were ripped using the fence as a reference for a square cut. Before attaching the runner plywood, I used a Beall tilt gauge and measured that one edge was 90.00 degrees to the fence and the other 89.95 degrees. Since the smallest unit of measure the Beall tilt gauge gives is 0.05 degree, I figured that I didn't need to fiddle around anymore.



I'll start by reading the book a little, asking questions as needed and machining the initial wood parts if I decide to go forward - unless I learn otherwise from reading the book, I'll wait until I have some parts made before ordering special tools or hardware. This way I'm only out some free maple.

Again, thanks for the advise, links and warm welcome!

It looks like Guitarmaking will arrive Thursday. Should I just read it front to back like I would any book or are there any sections that might be helpful to skip to first?

I read that book cover to cover at least twenty times over a period of five years before attempting a build. I am re-reading it now and finally some of the items discussed make a whole lot more sense after four complete builds. I say read it cover to cover at least twice and pay close attention to the idea of figuring out all the small details of a binding scheme first. Building really is pretty easy but there are a lot of steps and a mistake early can bite you in the end ( I have been blindsided a couple of times). Others will have different advice which is one of the cool things about building. There is no one way to do things and results are all that matter. I recommend Robbie O'briens videos as a compliment to the book for sure.

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http://www.booneguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stephen-Boone-guitar-builder/488208541257210

Mark, you should go for it, but not right away. the only way you are going to be able to build a quality guitar, is if you first know what a quality guitar is. take your time and study up on it. look at guitars in music stores. watch videos online, on guitarmaking and setup. a guitar isn't a single woodworking project. it's more like 12 or 15 of them. the biggest goofs I made came from not having enough knowledge about what I was doing, and how it would fit together with things that came later on in the build. (and I have a master's degree in guitar performance. I used to work in a Martin dealership. and I did setup work for 8 months for Washburn.)

I started planning my first guitar last summer. I did it as cheaply as I could. trust me, I don't have a lot of cash to spend. I started shopping for kits and bought a nice Martin 000 kit from Steve Kovacik for $400. (it was a combination, birthday / Christmas present). I then borrowed clamps, chisels, and a dremel from my father in law. I got some 3/4" plywood and made an external mold with a friend's bandsaw. The halves of the mold are held together with $3 brass hardware from lowes. I also used that bandsaw to cut radii in a couple of 2"x2"s. I borrowed a router from my father in law, and began making a jig for cutting binding channels ... but eventually talked a local luthier into doing it for me ... i traded some stuff and generally took advantage of his kindness! this spring I picked up my own router and a belt sander for $25 each. but wound up trading the router to the local luthier, and in exchange he did a peghead inlay for me. I drilled the holes in the peghead with a neighbor's drill press.

I spent more on this guitar than I needed to. I bought maple binding, herringbone purfling, and ebony bridge pins for it. the plastic stuff that came with my kit is going to be unused.

I did win a free body finish from Joe White at this year's OLF gathering, but wound up paying him (to do the neck) almost as much as a finish kit from stew-mac would've cost.

in total this guitar was about $800, case included. but I could've built the kit that I did for $650 or 700. much cheaper than a 000-28. As I went, I sold stuff on ebay to fund the project.

I did buy some tools. I got an 0.010" exacto razor saw at a hobby shop (doubles as a nut file). RV multi clamps to glue the fingerboard onto the neck. and some 4" bar clamps that I used to glue the back to the rim.

it is possible to buy top, back/sides, and neck separately, and do it very cheap. If I had gone this route, I think I could've done the guitar for $500.

a great forum is http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

I want to reinforce what these guys have already said. The book "Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology" by Cumpiano and Kinkead's book are the two that I have used since I began guitarmaking two years ago. The other two sites (LMI and Stewart MacDonald) are fantastic suppliers (I prefer LMI - bigger selection and generally cheaper).

I want to add that the woodworking superstore, Grizzly, also deals some lutherie tools and materials.

LMI also has some video tutorials on it that may be of some value to you.

And never forget that the wonderful crowd here on the OLF are always here to answer questions and give advice!

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Jake

~Make a joyful noise unto the Lord~

Woohoo! Guitarmaking showed up a day earlier than estimated!

It is quite a big book - bigger than I expected for the price, to be honest. There's also lots of informative pictures and I've only read the first few pages. Guess it's time to start reading. Don't worry though, I'm sure I'll be back soon with more questions!

While I read the book, what kinds of playing are a classical non-ferrous stringed guitar versus the American steel-stringed folk guitar best suited for? Having asked this, it'll turn out to be discussed in the book 10 pages in from where I am now.

theres a lot of stuff you can do though to avoid costs. Theres a luthier in my town and he is very resourcefull. He only makes 6-7 mandolins (high end) a year but his ideas are pretty neat. For a bending iron he uses a piece of pipe with a blow torch going into the pipe. For a buffer he took a motor from a washing machine and bougt some of the hardware to rig one up. I also heard theres a mold you can make that you put a lightbulb in and you can actually use that heat to bend, it has some other engineering aspects to absorb as much heat as possible but it has apparently been done. Theres also a site called guitar fetish that has a lot of cheaper economy parts but I've heard good things about it.

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" Blues is a low down achin chill, if you ain't never had it, I hope you never will."

Robert Johnson

Another thing I did was I used my wife's curling iron to bend my maple binding. it worked well.

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

One more suggestion - it may have been made elsewhere in this thread.
I recommend - in addition to Cumpiano and Natelson's book - that you purchase Jonathan Kinkead's book. For my first guitar it was more "accessible" than many of the other texts out there - and the descriptions were very straightforward, with fantastic pictures. This book is great for a first build - it's not a PhD level text, nor will it be sufficient should you continue on to #2, 3.....?? BUT, for me it made getting through the first quite enjoyable.

Building your first is a wonderful undertaking - but a challenging one. And you will make mistakes - remember to keep it fun. Good luck!