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Looking for wood purfling tips...

I got a pile of long maple veneer stock so I wouldnt have to keep buying $2-$3 purfling strips . I have read of using tanic acid (earl grey tea?) to darken the blakc wood, or India ink. Not sure if India ink bleeds, it shouldn't when its dry.

What glue is best for bending heat?
Ive read people use glycerin to soften this stuff so it won't crack.

And how do you cut this into nice even strips? I'm thinking about a flush cut saw and a channeled grove in flat wood at the moment, or rigging a dremel mini-table saw, which would take some time.

thanks....!!

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

The Maple veneer I have had seems to cut pretty easily. I use a razor blade in a holder, usually. I find a regular razor blade to be better than those utility knife blades, as the razor blade is thinner. It helps to line up with the grain if it is running diagonally. It will make the strips less subject to splitting. It bends just fine. I use a hot pipe. It can also be sanded or scraped thin with a thickness sander, or a scraper. Other woods (Bloodwood) have given me much more problem than maple.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

For black purfling the fiber (fish) paper is best. Bob at RC has it for an excellent price. They do sell black dyed wood at most veneer shops also but the fiber is more consistent every time. If you really want to dye the maple then let me know what works!! Every thread seems to give a lot of conflicting views and then the possibility of UV affecting the dye, the dye leeching out into surrounding woods, or uneven penetration when sanding through have all made me wary of giving it the old time test myself.

If you are using the maple as white in a b/w/b type deal then use the black fiber paper and I glue with titebond 2 (or 3) in a long press (for even pressure). It has never delaminated when bending. Remember to bookmatch the glue lines (i.e. in a 3 ply put the glue on the inner part of the outside pieces or both outer sides of the inner piece) to avoid warping. With the titebond you do have to allow a little for the glue line so beware if you are trying to fit your purfs in a specific channel size.

For cutting the strips (and veneer) the freud 60 tooth 7 1/4 blade on the table saw is my go to. It cuts very nicely. Make some dummy boards to keep top pressure over the cut and to keep your hand away from the blade.

Making purflings is very easy once you get the hang of it (and mega cheaper)!

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

Dyed wood is pressure dyed to get the dye all the way through. I agree that fish paper is a much simpler way to get a black border than trying to dye maple. If cold dyed you are likely to sand through the dye.

I found a video on making purfling strips here:

http://woodtreks.com/making-and-applying-decorative-string-inlay/477/

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Gabriel Regalbuto
Carlsbad, California
Freedom 35!

Oh man,that is a bummer, I thought I read about using india ink to dye maple for perfling...

The felt stuff for black might be a good idea. Just thinking about india ink, aluminum foil, and a hot iron...

Well, I guess I will have some of that maple veneer for sale soon enough....I have way too much now...

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

Dying your veneer is not worth the time or possible failure.
Unless you know what you're doing.
Black fibre is cheap, so is dyed veneer as sold by veneer companies. The only issue I have with black fibre is its toughness and the fact that it sometimes does not cut, scrape or sand as cleanly as hardwood and leaves ragged edges. It can also have a greenish cast under finish, which happened to me only once.
Titebond I or II work well enough for laminating, as well as Gorilla wood glue (sets faster…).
To avoid warping I wet one side of the sheet and spread glue on the other.
As Burton points out the small Freud Diablo blades are great for cutting purflings, 40 or 60 T work fine. I prefer to laminate veneer sheets before I cut them, but cutting a single sheet works well enough:
-Set the fence on the tablesaw for the width (I use .080")
-Retract the blade and clamp a sheet of scrap (MDF works well) the length of your table right against the fence on top of the blade slot
-Turn the saw on and bring the blade up through the sheet
-Retract the blade again, put your purfling sheet against the fence over the blade slot, and clamp a piece of scrap (about 1" x 4" 3/4" ply or MDF or whatever) to the fence over the purfling sheet, over the blade slot. Slightly bevel your piece of scrap at the veneer sheet entry.
- Remove the purfling sheet, turn the saw on and move the blade up until it goes a bit through the scrap clamped on the fence.
Resaw your sheets. There is absolutely zero clearance for the blade under the sheet, the piece of scrap clamped to the fence keeps the veneer down and buries the blade, you just have to press the sheet against the fence, cut at a constant speed and pull the strip after the blade. No splitting, no danger for the fingers. Works even for uncooperative .010" bloodwood sheets.

Chris, at guitar standard thicknesses (.010" to .020") wenge has to be one of the worst purfling materials known to man: it has huge pores, splits and cracks like nothing on Earth and will leave a myriad of small splinters in the fingers. Been there…
EIR is much better suited for a dark brown, black walnut is perfect for a grayish brown.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Thanks for the sawing tips for sawing purfling Laurent!
That sounds like a good, safe way to go at it.

Joe

I first cut to 1 inch, then laminate, then cut to purf dimensions. Zero clearance insert, a slick uhm fence, a wide feather board, and another long piece to hold down the waste side of the veneer. You get good black lines from macasser ebony veneer which easy to find and not very expensive if you buy in a veneer bundle. I use a thurston slitting blade, zero set and around .050" kerf, similar to lmi fretting blade only wider kerf.

I like Laurent's top push board idea, I'm going to try that myself next time.

I cut veneer strips with a sharp utility knife and a metal straight edge. I takes four or five passes with the knife to cut through the veneer. This process is real easy and is more economical of the veneer as there is no kerf loss.

The one problem I run into with cutting .010"-.020" veneer is if I take to much depth at a pass or the blade isn't very sharp that the veneer sheet will split at the run out of the grain. Although my method is a razor/ utility knife and drafting table parallel bar. I have a Balsa cutter from a hobby store which I'm going to try as soon as I modify it like Alan Carruth did to his for cutting. The veneer is from LMI . Which raises another question as to what sources of veneer are you all using. I'd like to find some straight grain veneer instead of the stuff that is peeled off a log.

Chris, my comment was not meant as a personal attack.
I hope it is possible to disagree and remain civil without taking such disagreements personally.

I've seen Eko guitars from the 60's with wenge FBs that didn't fare too well: deep divots when the frets were barely used. And yes, I have used wenge veneer to make purflings, they ended up in the kindling pile after one guitar.
To me wenge is one example of why would anybody use this when so many better alternatives are available?
It probably sounds fine as a tonewood although I wouldn't know. All I see is the ease with which it splinters and cracks, the huge pores and the outrageous weight.
In a factory setting and for electric basses there may be some redeeming qualities I ignore beyond the cheap price.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Words to live by on a public forum.

Great thread guys! Lets keep it upright

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Okay, but what's your sources of veneer guys? Do you just cut your own from holly and maple logs like in the Wood trec video or do you have a supply source? Sounds like Laurent is cutting his own with his table saw setup.
Has anyone cut .010" veneer lines using a #5 plane. I know Alan Carruth has some cool jigs using a plane for sizing his rosettes tile pieces. The plane rides on rails to the sides of the thoat opening. I'm wondering if a .062" piece could be clamped on edge and then the plane used to shave off the .010" strip with a simular jig? Or maybe I should just ask how are you cutting or making your purf lines?

This is what I wrote:
…at guitar standard thicknesses (.010" to .020") wenge has to be one of the worst purfling materials known to man…
Notice the difference in syntax and the different meaning of "idea" and "material" in the context.
I didn't criticize your idea, but related my experience with a touch of humor that totally escaped you. Another product of your negligence is that my name is spelled "Brondel", not "Brodel".


I buy veneer sheets sometimes, but they are generally rotary cut and tend to warp. Which makes them impractical to cut into strips. Besides the thickness is usually .023", if I can reduce them to .020" or .010" in the drum sander without trouble I use them in layers for BWB sheets, for example.
I buy curly maple boards (I always have a look in the piles at Lowe's or lumberyards), resaw them on the flatsawn part with the tablesaw or bandsaw and pass them in the drum sander.
Another method is to resaw them on the quarter at the desired height (say .080"), cut them in strips, CA the ends of the strips in sheets and pass them in the drum sander for the desired thickness. Then either I cut the ends if there is enough length, or separate the strips with an X-Acto knife. Needless to say I use a carriage board in the sander, typically a piece of MDF I passed in the drum sander to get exactly the same height left-to-right and with some PSA 120 grit to hold the sheets. To get to .010" 120 grit is recommended, or careful multiple passes at the same setting with 80 grit on the sander.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Thanks Laurent, I'll have to start checking out Lowes maple after checking out their 2 X 6 spruce boards for brace stock.

...typically a piece of MDF I passed in the drum sander to get exactly the same height left-to-right and with some PSA 120 grit to hold the sheets.

Now thats the tip of the day!!

_________________
Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

Let it go, let it go, let it go. Let's agree to disagree.
I use a sled on my thickness sander just for that reason also and I just got a roll of 120 grit for thicknessing my top plates.

I purchase most of my veneers in bulk, they tend to be very consistent in thickness. I've had difficulty getting consistent thicknes using a drum sander, I get variations of +- .008" even with a carriage board on my 22-44, I'm sure it's possible but that's been my experience.

I do use a plane for .010" but for white veneer that thin I switch from maple to basswood reason is basswood planes very easy, maple and holly are too brittle the strips break-off when planing .01" strips, I've been told alaskan yellow is also a good wood for this. I put water on the board surface before planing then just zip off strips. Amazing thickness consistency using this method.

So Marc you just simply shoot it down the board without any guides then. A #7 is your choice?

Yes, no guides. I use a #7 which is a little cumbersome. A #6 jack plane would work great but I don't have one. I do have a 4.5 smoothing plane, but it has only a short surface in front of the blade.

Wow, thats pretty good! Just use a thick plane shaving...

_________________
Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

You should check out Eugene Clark's method in American Luthiery ( I forget which issues-but he goes through his process of making lines and rosettes). It is low tech but the results are great. He uses a sharpened needle file pushed through a piece of lath with an edge guide. It would seem to require a lot of technique, but I was making 32" lines in minutes. The key is that the blade has zero gap around it so the cut is supported all around.

That would be AL#71 and AL #73. I've read them and they are really a must read I think. The balsa cutter is a tool simular to his home made tool.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAA63
Alan Carruth has modified his with a piece of brass CA glued to the fence face for wear and makes a heavy duty blade for cutting thicker woods. I've also been thinking of making a thickness scraper/plane like Eugene Clark uses from a cheap HF plane or $35 Standly and and cutting off the front of the plane. That bullnose plane he uses is a $100 plane. I tried for while to get one on ebay but those goofy people end up bidding to where for $10 more you can get a new one.