Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sun Jul 27, 2025 1:31 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:35 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:31 pm
Posts: 3
First name: Eric
Last Name: Dupuis
City: Limoges
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: K0A2M0
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi there,
I'm new here and having some trouble with jointing the back on my guitar. Everytime I use the shooting board and plane, I end up with a crown or a bow on my pieces.
Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:40 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:23 pm
Posts: 1694
Location: United States
First name: Lillian
Last Name: Fuller-Watson
State: WA
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Eric, what plane are you using? Do you have enough room on the ends for the plane to rest before or after it contacts the wood?

_________________
Aoibeann


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:42 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Well a couple things come to mind first is are you clamped equally across the plates. If the plate can compress in the middle because the edges are firmly clamped but the mid section is not, you can get this. Also if you have too much plate beyond the clamp point there is a slight compression that can take place.

Now I assume you have tuned the the bottom of the plane to be dead flat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:47 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:31 pm
Posts: 3
First name: Eric
Last Name: Dupuis
City: Limoges
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: K0A2M0
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have tuned my plane, I am using a # 5 Bailey.
"Do you have enough room on the ends for the plane to rest before or after it contacts the wood?"
Not quite sure what you mean here
Thanks again for the help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:02 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Your plates (top or back plates) should be clamped in place across ther full width or at least each end and the mid section. if the mid secetion is not clamped, the force of the plane cand cause the plates to flex inward as the mass of the plane approches th mid section of the plates and then stat rebounding as the plane starts exiting the mid sectiions of the plate just a miro-fraction of compression or flex will cause your cut to be concaved.

I used a #7 jointer plane so I had much more forward sole plate and evetually rear sole plate in contack than you do wit a #5 smoother plane


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:37 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:23 pm
Posts: 1694
Location: United States
First name: Lillian
Last Name: Fuller-Watson
State: WA
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I've seen a few shooting jigs made that had a larger base piece and another one on top to elevate the plates and to act as a fence. The base piece on these weren't much longer than the other piece, which was just slightly larger than the plates themselves. If you aren't using your bench as the surface your plane is resting on, is the surface you are using long enough for the plane to rest on it before and after the cut, especially before the cut?

A simpler question is what does your shoot board setup look like?

_________________
Aoibeann


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:47 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:49 pm
Posts: 2915
Location: Norway
Hi Junior24xx, there are many different shooting boards designs out there. Judging from Michael's description, mine is very different from his, and you have not described what your shooting board looks like, either. Some more detail about your setup and how you are using it would be helpful.

However, I suspect that your problems have something to do with your planing technique. To plane a straight joint, you need to shift your pressure from the front (toe) of the plane as you start the cut, to the back (heel) of the plane at the end of the cut, to make sure the plane is supported straight on the workpiece for the duration of the cut. If not, the problems you describe can occur. As Lillian is suggesting, it is also important that whatever the plane rides on is long enough to support the whole plane during the cut. It is also important that this surface is smooth and true.

IMO, a #5 plane is more than adequate for this task (I use a #5 1/2). If it is not set up well, no plane will work right, so that is a given.

<edit> Lillian posted while I was (slowly) typing... It seems we agreee, though!

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:20 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:31 pm
Posts: 3
First name: Eric
Last Name: Dupuis
City: Limoges
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: K0A2M0
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks again for the help.
I've tried two setups for my shooting board one that is basically just where my wood is overhanging teh shooting board completely and another where I've made a "fence" that the plane can ride on.
I'll double check that I am clamping correctly and will try to refine my technique,
DO any of you have any suggestions for a better shooting board?
THanks
Eric


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:18 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:23 pm
Posts: 1694
Location: United States
First name: Lillian
Last Name: Fuller-Watson
State: WA
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Check this thread out.

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18669

_________________
Aoibeann


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:49 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:16 am
Posts: 140
Location: United States
Forget using a shooting board with a guide, as that introduces other elements to create problems. Before you start planing, hold the pieces together to determine if there is existing crown or dip. If the edges do not look straight, then take partial plane strokes to shave off the high ends or high middle, until it looks pretty darn straight. If you start with a crowned piece and take full length strokes, you can stay in a vicious circle for a long time. After you have flattened the edge as well as you can, take a few full length passes to even it all out. Adjust your plane to take the thinnest shavings that you can - should be no more than .003".

Brook


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:06 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:25 am
Posts: 3788
Location: Russellville, Arkansas
Junior, what you are experiencing can be aggravating. It can be very frustrating chasing the perfect joint.

I pretty much gave up on the shooting board method and went back to my old Kalamazoo jointer with electric motor. Two or three passes and a near perfect joint. Not all electric jointers do a perfect job either. There was a time I went back and forth between a shooting board and the jointer, just trying to get something to work.

I hear all the folk saying planed joints are best, and that is likely true. However, I want my joints to pass the light test at the window pane and get it glued.

Image Lillian shared the link to another thread which contains this picture of a square sanding station for joining, this is Rich Smith's in Washington State. Pretty cool, the substrate is Corian a countertop material, pretty stable and flat. The upright keeps things in alignment as you sand a joint.

So many times after getting close, I'll lay two sheets of garnet paper about 180 grit on my jointer and slip the edges up under the fence. Purpose, to get that last little stubborn area of joint to flatten out and get it ready to glue. This has worked well for many many joins, and it quickly gets me past the light test.

Since I have the fence on the jointer, it serves to hold the sides or tops perpendicular to the jointer face, so no wiggling as it might doing a handheld sanding of a thin edge. I know, you may not have a jointer, so this means you'll have to devise another way to sand squarely if you choose to try it.

Some folk use an aluminum level in place of the jack plane and simply apply PSA strips (peel an stick abrasive strips) to the edge. I checked StewMac.com and they have a fret levelling tool that would work for this job it's 24 inches long and about 40 bucks.

1 Sanding on the jointer face and fence, 2 picking up from Mario to candle at a window, and 3 learning the tent method of joining have been boons to joining for me. Good luck, it's a learning process.

I still revert to the go bar deck for joining backs with backstrips so I can press everthing into alignment horizontally while joining. This can be fun once you get past the frustration of chasing the joint.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Shooting board help
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:50 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:49 am
Posts: 897
Location: Northen Cal.
Quote:
Your plates (top or back plates) should be clamped in place across ther full width or at least each end and the mid section. if the mid secetion is not clamped, the force of the plane cand cause the plates to flex inward as the mass of the plane approches th mid section of the plates and then stat rebounding as the plane starts exiting the mid sectiions of the plate just a miro-fraction of compression or flex will cause your cut to be concaved.


As Michael said above this can be a issue. My board is pretty much as Todd's is with the addition of a long stop on the back to prevent what Michael was talking about. I just screw a temporary wood stop so that I have maybe 1/4" over hang of the edges of the wood I am shooting. This stop also makes it easier to secure the wood and concentrate on the planing and not have to worry about things slipping. Uh, sometimes I just pound in a few nails for stops :D What ever works.
Link

_________________
Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com