Official Luthiers Forum!

Well, now that I've made a few replies to some posts just to get my furry face present in the forum, I would like to pose a question to those of you who desire to help.

Since I'm still an aspiring luthier, and by no means full of the wealth of knowledge to be gained,
I have a question for those of you who have much more knowledge and experience than I.

Geez what the hay? What's a guy like me who spends daily life in my "man cave" trying to sound intellectual for?

OK, here's the question, I've had a request from a family member to build him a guitar (SS) that has
a neck that is a bit wider at the nut than usual. His own words were;
"A thin wide neck makes playing easier for my slower rougher hand." I know this is a standard on a classical but what about a SS?

(Stop ramblin' Bill and get to the question)

OK.......OK.......Here's the question, has anyone made a SS with a wider neck at the nut with success
and what things do I need to consider on neck structure and regarding the fretboard radius if this is a feasible option?
I typically like to use a compound fretboard radius on my SS guitars, would the radius's need to be
modified? Would a single radius be better? Any and all help available would indeed be greatly appreciated.

_________________
Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

FYI The typical factory Steel String is 1.6875" or 1.75" nut. with 2.125" to 2.25" bridge pin spacing. You can’t really talk about one dimension without considering the other. They are interrelated to form string spacing at given intervals that define the E-e string taper which in turn defines the neck taper.

All that said I have built a few guitars with 1.8125" nut width at 2.3125" bridge pin spacing many finger style like more clearance between strings. So this is not all that unusual.

Now thinness of the neck profile is limited to the strength of the neck wood. The bottom of the truss rod slot to bottom of the thinnest part of the neck profile is the weakest part of the neck. Interestingly enough this happens fairly near the nut which is also near the furthest extent of the cantilever that the neck forms and the point that the sting force is imparted into the neck at. So be carful there.

I personally prefer 1 3/4 nuts with 2 1/4 string spacing at the bridge. This is only 1/16 wider than most factory guitars but makes a lot of difference. I know a player who plays a Taylor with a 1 7/8 nut ( actually a 12 string neck ) and for me it is way to wide. Have him play some guitars at a guitar store and measure the nut and string spacing on one he prefers and use that. It is easy to find 1 3/4 nuts on off music shop guitars, and Seagull brand uses a 1.8 inch nut. What must be kept in mind is future sales of the instrument, as most people will play a 1 3/4 without problems but wider than that can make a guitar harder to sell.

Fred

_________________
Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I'm not a luthier, but my take as a player is that if the instrument has a wider nut width (i.e., 1 3/4"+ vs 1 11/16") it will need a thinner neck to make playing more comfortable. Normally I can't use 1 3/4" because it's so wide it will cause my hand to cramp, however, the E2 Lance built for me has a 1 3/4" nut width with a very thin (front to back) neck profile that makes for a truly comfortable instrument. It's truly a balancing act. I picked up a 1935 D-18 and had to put it down immediately because the thick 1 3/4" V shaped neck profile was an exercise in pain. Then again, my friend uses a 1 20-21/32" nut D-28 with the thinnest, slimmest profile ever. It can be difficult to play as well. I guess I'm saying that for me the fretboard radius would be less of a concern as a player than the overall thickness of the neck, especially towards the heel. If I were to want the wider nut I'd want a profile at least as slim as the modern Martin "low profile" neck shape if not thinner.

Sorry to chime in on a specifically luthiers' thread, but I hoped this might be at least slightly beneficial.

John

Hey Michael, Fred and John,

I certainly do appreciate all of your responses, all of this is quite helpful indeed.
John I'm glad you chose to drop in with your thoughts because your viewpoint
as a player is very important to me. I, like Segovia, have hams and sausages for hands
and fingers as does my uncle who made the specific request. As a player myself, I like
the 1-7/8" nut but I've been playing a 12 string for about 38 years so I guess I just
kinda got spoiled with that. It is so important to have the input of other players so
my biases as a player don't adversely affect my performance as a luthier again,
your input is always welcome!

Michael and Fred, I have only been a participant for a short while obviously in the forum
but I've been browsing the forum every since I found it a about 3 years ago. I always
appreciate what you both have to input and have learned valuable info from both of you.

When I took the 2 week intensive SS course at ASL with Charles Fox, one thing that was
stressed was the importance of the neck being thin and easy in playability. Also the semi-
spherical fret ends were an emphasis. We added the carbon fiber into the neck on either side
of the Truss Rod (each in it's own channel) and had to take care carving the necks as thinly
as possible without exposing the carbon fiber. I was pretty adventurous (and fortunate)
in this process and continue to duplicate it because I love the playability of the thin neck.

Fred I like the idea of having him play several in a music store but I don't know if that's
possible since he lives in Cook County MN basically small town nowhere as far as amenities.

Since this is for my uncle he plans to keep it and pass it along as a family heirloom. I appreciate
again the input from all of you. I'm still trying to determine about the radius now. I like the
compound radius but I'm wondering if a single radius with a slightly asymmetrical neck might be
the ticket. He's the pastor of a church and at near 70 he still plays and leads the worship in his
church. I'd like to make it as comfortable as possible for him to be able to play 45 minute sessions.
I know I'm throwing a lot into the mix here but I love the awesome brainpower in this forum.

Well, I'm ramblin again so I'll kick back and leave it to you who are more well seasoned than I. Thanks
again to all of you, this gives me a good leap forward.

_________________
Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!