A Sypitar Build in C# mionr

the Padma · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:45 pm

.
Well here it is

A Sympitar Build in C# minor

That's right C# minor

So whats a C# minor Sympitar

Well a sympitar is a guitar with some sympathetic strings like a harp guitar or sitar.

Only this is a 7 stringer on top with the other 7 sympathetic strings on a Jiwari Bridge under the fret board.

It will be opened tuned to the key of C# minor. The "Om" frequency or to be exact 136.1 hz minus 3 cents.
C# minor has 4 sharps in it, and is often referred to as "the sound of oneness" or the "sound of liberation" amongst many many other names.

The design is based upon the Golden Section proportions, a ratio of 1 : 1 : 2 : 3 : 5 : 8 : 13 , the same numbers used by Antonio Stradivari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Stradivari and Nicolo Amati http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolo_Amati, master luthiers of the violin family and may incorporate other mystical mumbo jumbo as time goes on.

This is an instrument of my own design. For those of you interested in the philosophy behind this build , I refer you to my [url="http://www.luthierforum.com/index.php?showforum=126"]early postings[/url] . However as the build progresses, it will be accompanied with its design philosophy, its purpose and intent and the mystical mumbo jumbo of an instrument to be played in the key C# minor.

There are no frets or fret markers. The finger board will have harmonics markers, and a radius of approximately 20 inches. The string length is currently set at 31.5 inches but may be reduced to 30. I still have to play with the ratios of 136.1 hrz in terms of a suitable string length and thickness of the low C# string.

To get an idea of its intended tonal qualities go here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvhKTFzQG8Y
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcu9Q7O6V48&feature=related
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aku7Qrt-25c&feature=related
and supper impose this sound quality upon what a guitar can do with the accompanying of fuzzie buzzie sympathetic string sitar like sounds.

Wooden tuning pegs, silk wound steel strings, ( I would much prefer pure silk strings if I can get them as that way there will be no metal in the instrument at all) carved top and back on a one piece neck and sides of wishbone construction in keeping with the concept of oneness as is appropriate for this key. Here again I refer you to my earlier builds to be found here
http://www.luthierforum.com/index.php?showforum=126
or at
http://www.luthiercom.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=96
as well as else were on this site

Attached is the first rough drawing to start building with. Although it has taken me six months of thinking and meditating upon this design to get to this drawing stage, I actually started this project 8 years ago! The drawing took less than one day. Though there are measurements on the drawing, those of you who are familiar with my approach know that they are only guide lines as I build by the feel of the wood between my fingers, and the voice in my heart and not a set of calipers or other measuring devices. The wood selection has been started but the final decision on materials is yet to be determined. I am favouring white holly from my good friend luthier Jesse Burge down in Hattiesburg, MS., timed in ebony and padauk Nor has the name for this instrument reveled itself as of yet but this does not concern me as it will probably take me a year to build.

Please note: This build and thread is not to be confused with other build threads of the same name by my self posted on various other luthier sites. Although they all are of a similar nature and are running concurrently each build on each site is completely and utterly different. In other words...this Sympitar in C# mionor build is part one of a series of three Sympitars being build concurrently with only one of them appearing on this site. Wanna see the other two
go to
http://www.luthiercom.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=431
and
http://www.luthierforum.com/index.php?showtopic=8366

As this is a concurrent 3 part project, the postings on the other 2 sites are virtually identical at the moment but will start to diverge when the sawdust starts to fly.

In this next drawing you will see that the parallel bracing for the top has now been modified so as to be crafted, out of a one piece block of wood and yet remain part of the block as do the neck and ribs.
This of course is much more in keeping with the "oneness" concept of this build.

It will make it some what more difficult to shape the parallels to conform to a carved top. However my experiments into a sudo carved top see two Mandos http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21036)by flexing a thin top seem to have worked judging by the tap tones as the mandos have yet to be strung up.

This flexed approach to the top will permit much easier fabrication of the parallel braces.

I view this build as the completion of my last 8 years of research in to the art of luthierisum, and as such, may just be my swan song.

bliss

Blessings,
the
Padma

meddlingfool · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:05 pm

Padma,
Best of luck with your very unusual and ambitious project. Here's hoping it vexes you just enough to try to top it, it would be saddening were it to be your swansong.

K.O. · **Posted:** Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:45 am

Sorry I didn't follow any links(have concentration probs) and can't help but want to call it Hardangitar.

the Padma · **Posted:** Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:33 pm

.

Yo, Dudes, Master luthier Fred Carlson http://beyondthetrees.com/ is the inventor of the Sympitar pictured here.

No bout~adout it, over the last few years, Fred's work has been an inspiration to my self and I believe many others as well.

And now its time for me to save face and offer my most deep and sincere apologies to Mr. Fred Carlson for my having started a build thread on a Sympitar and failing to knowledge where the name Sympitar came from, his instruments and of course Fred himself. For this gross oversight on my part, my most humble apologies to you Fred.

As punishment for this indiscretion and oversight, I will bundle up all my collection of broken guitar strings into a flogger, tie myself to my work bench and self~flagellate the appropriate 100 lashes.

As for the likely hood of me getting rich and famous from the Sympitar...forget it...us monks take a vow of poverty. But if I do, I'll share it with you Fred. Hows that sound?

Blessings Fred
many blessings,
the humble
and repenting
Padma

cphanna · **Posted:** Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:48 pm

Padma, I am glad to see you back with another instrument. I'm really fascinated by your design concepts. I don't recall your top braces having been integral with the neck in previous instruments, but I think that's a pretty cool idea, and it seems logical, as well, because you are already making your sides that way. Certainly unorthodox, but a certain amount of unorthodox thinking can lead to amazing discoveries and provide a lot of inspiration to others. I'll keep an eye on this thread, and I'm looking forward to your posts. Press on!

Patrick

Blain · **Posted:** Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:17 pm

Padma,

It looks like you have quite the project ahead of you.
Best of luck and keep us posted on it's progress.

the Padma · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:50 am

layin down the mystical incantations in ancient symbols and their placement on a sign wave running on the fingerboard to possibly become the cosmic dragon, an inlay of stars or even simple assorted size dowel and gee ...maybe even brass on the harmonics.

Is going slow ... but is going...one day is gonna be gone and then what ?

blessings
the
Padma

the Padma · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:55 am

.
The tail piece.

Is nothing more or less than your somewhat standard violin family tail piece with the fret carved into it. The carved fret prevents buzz from the short after lengths on the flat of the tail piece. Which to me are important as they DO VIBRATE and as such have to be taken into account when building. Although I know of very very very few builders who even consider this...but this is a sympatar and as such them little short bits are important. They gonna sing too. Although quite high in voice. Even Benedetto ignores this or at least he don't write about it. As do most of the violin makers of today. However thats why the Sacconi tail adjuster was developed...to be able to tune for the after lengths...but alas...the infidels just don't get this or can't be bothered.

Use to have long discussions with Steve from down Texus about tuning the after lengths at that not to be named other forum.

You could look at Pg 176 Making An Archtop Guitar by Benedetto.

Now the 7 upper strings are installed normally.

However, the 7 sympathetic strings are installed backwards. In other words they pass into small consecutive in line holes on the top of the tail piece and out the underside of the tail piece, run over a fulcrum in the underside, then between the legs of the violin style bridge and over the jewari bridge.

Here you can see one upper string and one lower symp string , really just a piece of yellow string which you can just barely see tied to a pencil and passing through one of the recessed 7 inline holes under the pencil.

blessings
the
Padma

the Padma · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:56 am

Well its almost finished. She be strung up. Needs set up yet.

What me learned.

Dough Fir is too heavy for this design...gonna rebuild it in all cedar.

Neck too long without frets, although a bass player could probably handle it.

Neck still too long for the inline tuners and tailpiece ~ very hard to find strings.
I had to extend the strings up on the peg head by adding shorter lengths. Tacky,
but it works.

Gonna cut it back from 30 inches to about a 28 inch string length.

Do not like the flat top at all. Flat flat flat. Yuck.

Won't be able to really tune her up till I get some of that stuff to stop the pegs form slipping tomorrow.

Is loud and with all them extra strings and that tone plate inside...she just be a ringing every
which a way. Don't even breath on her or she starts singing. Won't be able to assess the tone plate or her sonics for a few days yet. However it seems that the jewari bridge works real good at getting them sympathetic strings to buzz.

Took a good look at the quality of me jointery and decided it wasn't worth the effort
and time to build and install a damper for the sympathetic strings. So I didn't.

Didn't have enough box wood for 14 pegs so used some hard red stuff...don't know what it is.
Strong enough, not the best for holding detail but by the time I got to the pegs, my head
space was really stressed and so I used the laith work as therapy and will tolerate the final product.
If it were a clients they would be chucked in the stove.

This build was started this spring...sorta to get my mind off of all the that was going
down all around me. Well it worked good for that so to speak, but as far as a quality build ...
its a piece of crap. Every single emotion, and all the stress I have been under can be seen at
every stage of its construction. I will wait till it has been set up and played to hear
just what she sounds like, and it better be good, or I'm afraid its firewood. No joking dudes,
but my craftsmanship is a real dog on this build. Oh well, can't win them all.

Will post sound and video as soon as Jiles shows up.

blessings
the
Padma

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