Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey folks....me again.

My number 3 is going to be a small bodied guitar, somewhere in the L-0 category. Cocobolo back and sides - WRC top. Probably a 24.9 scale unless someone convinces me otherwise.

My questions are:
What do you brace WRC with?
Are there any special considerations to sound hole placement and size on small bodied guitars?
Would a scale length other than 24.9 be better?

That's all that crosses my mind right now but I'm sure I'll think of more stuff.

Thanks in Advance Homies!
Chris

_________________
There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

Homies!

Well Chris my friend this sounds like a fantastic concept for a guitar - coco w/WRC, very cool!

I braced my WRC guitar with Adi but other woods will work fine too. I like longer scale lengths on smaller bodied guitars so I think that your scale length should be cool too.

I'll defer to the other folks for the other questions but I wanted to wish you the very best of luck with this guitar!

I recently built a coco/wrc 00 (14.5 lower bout) for a client .... 13 fret 24.9 scale. It was VERY sweet - a really nice combo IMO for a smaller guitar. The top was baked prior to use and the guitar was braced with lutz .. it was very loud as well. I would post pix, but I havent gone over to get them back from my photographer yet .. I dont get out much !!!

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

My body is looking to be more like 13 inches at the lower bout.........and 9.5 inches at the top. I hadn't thought of doing the 13th to the body. That must have put your bridge farther away from the soundhole. Unless you moved the soundhole. But for some reason I don't perceive you would move the soundhole farther down. Maybe I am wrong about that. Tony would you please tell me more about your thoughts when you planning this guitar? Specifically where you were considering scale, sound hole placement and and such. Novice here so I'm listening. Just cuz I love my wood I snapped a couple pics.....4 piece back....

Thanks,
Chris

_________________
There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

Hi Chris,

well, I design all my own bracing patterns .. have for years really, except forthe first 10 or so which where pretty much Larrivee derived right forma GAL article where Jean totally spilled the beans on the pattern he uses. You start to understand where bracing needs to go when you draw tings out and compare them to known patterns.

So ... based upon a Martin 0-18K from 1929, I built a copy of that sort of, using the same body pattern and fingerboard, scale etc. - except a 13 fretter - that meant moving the soundhole and the associated bracing to make everything work/line up.

patterns - I always start by knowing the scale, the neck joint position (12/13/14), and how many frets the FB will have. This determines the soundhole position and the bridge/saddle position on the plan. The soundhole can move slightly depending on how much FB you have past your last fret as well ....

Now I lay out the X brace, assuming an X angle (I like 98) - I try to stay about 1/4 inch from the soundhole edge, and run thru the wings of the bridge - sometimes the angle needs to be tweaked - you will see if it does when you draw it out. This is pretty much a forward shifted X position.

Then add in your UTB, and whatever tone bars you are planning - mine are symetrical/perpendicular ala Larrivee .. not assymetrical alal Martin. To each his own.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Hmmmmm.....sounds like I have some work to do. I really was going to just start putting stuff together. Thanks Tony.

I have to go buy some big paper.

_________________
There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

So here's what I've come up with....and I have a questions about the X-Brace extending up into the upper bout. Please look. Should it go that far into the upper bout? Do I inlet them into the upper bout? Do I terminate them at the Transverse Brace that will go above the sound hole. The plan doesn't show some of the other braces. I was mostly concerned with getting the x brace laid out so I could see where it needed to be in relation to the bridge and keeping some degree of forward placement. I dont see how I can keep it from not going up into the upper bout and still keep the x shifted forward. The bridge/saddle placement is pre-determined so I can't move that. Novice here so hit me with it.

Scale is 24.9
13th fret body join
19 frets total
Plan is drawn to scale

_________________
There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

I just completed two 0-size guitars, one a 12 fret, 24.9 scale; the second a 14 fret, 25.4 scale. The basic body dimensions
were similar to the Martin 0-size I found on several forums. One is http://www.provide.net/~cfh/martin.html#size.
Go down the page to "Body Size Designations". I kept the same mold for both bodies, just moved the soundhole and X-brace
to compensate for the differences. I think both sound really good but I'm only a novice player, but my guitar teacher and another
good player from around here liked them as well. Looking at your drawing, I think I would increase the angle between the X-brace
legs (the angle closest to the bridge area), and slide the X-brace down to catch the sides of the bridge again. That would pull
the upper part of the braces down closer to the waist.

_________________
Gene

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain

The X braces need to be farther from the soundhole edge, like Tony Karol said about 1/4" is good. This will change the angle of your X into something more normal. Doing that will also get the X out of the transverse braces territory. The X is almost always tucked into the lining above the soundhole, tucking the south end is personal preference.

Look through the soundhole of a guitar and note the clearance between the soundhole edge and the X braces, that should fix everything and make for a nice sounding little guitar.

_________________
Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

Hi Chris,
I have been drawing my own plans on my last three guitars and do pretty much
what Tony K. posted. On your pic I agree that the X needs to be splayed out some.
It is too close to the sound hole. I would inlet the top of the X but not the bottom.
It's up to you but that's what I've been doing.The lower X has to run under the
bridge wings.I'll dig out the L-00 plan and take a pic for you. I like your wood choice on
this one!

_________________
Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

You can also move the soundhole up if you want to. There's no reason the end of the FB can't overhang the soundhole, although it is somewhat unconventional.

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I altered the plan to reflect an x brace that doesn't meet the sides so far into the upper bout. Now they meet the sides just a fraction of an inch below the top of the sound hole. That should do it.

Does anyone have any opinion regarding the impact on tone the bridge placement will have? It's just about in the middle of the belly because it's a 13th fret join at the neck. Curious to what people think on that. Looks funny to me.

_________________
There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

That looks more like it.

Lots of people consider the middle of the lower bout to be the perfect place for the bridge, so you are in good shape. There are lots of great sounding small 14 fret guitars with the bridge up higher also.

_________________
Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY