Official Luthiers Forum!

I am looking at a vintage Les Paul Special. It has what appears to be a hairline crack in the usally spot on the back of the neck/headstock. Even with the strings up to full pitch and me wailing on it, the crack does not seperate. It has apparently been this way for years and has never moved. The original owner said the crack was in the finish only, but from seeing a bunch of these, the crack is very typical in shape from trama to the headstock.

If there is no seperation would you repair it with CA or leave it as is?

Thoughts?

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Joe

First i would comfirm it is in the wood not just the finish

IMO .. until it (the crack/headstock) does something that warrants a repair ..leave it alone.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I second the leave it alone opinion. CA will probably just make a mess of the finish. Grab the headstock and bend it real good, it helps to have a magnifying glass. If you can't bend it open leave it alone. What I do if it opens a little bit is wick some water in there and massage some Titebond in as you bend open and shut the crack, clean up and clamp over night. You probably won't even need a finish repair.

Dude, if it is a vintage vintage les paul special, it could be worth mondo cash, and any potential repairs should be made in light of this. One recently went for $28,000 on ebay, so any repairs should be done "super pro" to avoid trashing the vintage value.

( I know how valuable these are, because i had one and sold it for $1,800!!! I have watched in horror as they have skyrocketed in price over the years.)

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

Is this a guitar you are looking at buying, or looking at repairing for the owner?

I wouldn't opine on what to do with it without a photo at least, and maybe without some hands-on. But if I were to be trying to get some glue into a tight hairline headstock crack, it would be hide glue.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

This is what they call a LP Special 55 from the early 70's. It is basically a 50's style LP special that lucky didn't get the Norlin "treatment". So its go no volute or crappy neck joint, no tune0matic etc. Value of this one is in the $2-3K range in this market. Probably higher in a good market. But the crack hurts the cause.

I am looking at buying it at a slightly reduced price, but wanted to understand better what I was in for. I have repair a handfull of headstocks that have been broken. I just have never approached one that doesn't appear to open.

I have a picture...I will see if I can get it upload to photobucket.


Joe

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Joe

This picture captures it well. All the crack you see is as far as it goes.. nothing on the front or along the sides of the neck.

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Joe

That is not just in the finish. But it is very shallow. If you look very closely with good light, you can probably see it move a tiny bit with pressure on the headstock. I would try to work in a bit of thin hide glue while flexing the headstock, and then put a clamp on it while it dries. If it ever fails, it should make for a clean break.

You could also leave it alone and keep an eye on it.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

If it doesn't move at all, it may have been glued before.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Having a crack like that is kind of in your interests, in that it is totally fixable but it will reduce the price. Mine was the best electric guitar i have ever had. Too bad its not "TV" yellow, they sound better.

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

I don't know what I am talking about but I do remember a post that Rick Turner made describing his fix for this kind of crack. If I remember correctly hot water was injected prior to wicking in HHG. The dampened and warmed surfaces inside the crack seem to assist the HHG in wicking in.

I agree with what Jordan said about the possibility of this being a valuable instrument which does elevate the need for a skilled professional who understands the vintage market as the repair person.

LOL! I know more than a little about vintage Les Pauls....

I just am unsure if I buy this guitar, if I should attempt the fix or let it be for now. I am thinking that if I can open it up, I will use hide glue and work it in and clamp it. If it doesn't move...I may just leave it for now. I have fixed a quite a few headstock breaks including some real doozies! but this one being so minor changes everything.

Thanks for your comments,

Joe

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Joe

Dang, now i feel like i need to put P-90s in everything.

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

I could be wrong, but seeing as the crack goes across a 3 piece neck (at least it sure looks like one) and knowing that Gibsons have a huge truss rod access hole, I would say that has defintely been glued before if it does move - (what the heck is left holding it together ??) .... If it were a true "new" crack, it would open under string tension, and likely even by hand whenthe strings are off.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Joe my friend my sincere apology to you for possibly implying that you may not be a pro. My mistake. It's difficult, at least for me, to remember everyone on the OLF and what their specialties are. But no excuses - my apologies to you.

My Friend Hesh! I did not take any offense to your post. My expertise is in vintage guitars...but that does not make me a Pro at repairing them...or I wouldn't have asked for comments. I continue to see guitars accross my bench that are damaged in a new way....or at least in a way I haven't seen before. Each repair is a new adventure into the unknown!

I am very fortunate to get to see hundreds of vintage guitars a year. I get to play them, repair them, sell them, buy them etc. I never get tired of that.

Joe

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Joe

Tony,

Yes its a three piece neck. That is the one thing that is not vintage correct on this "reissue" but at the time in the 70's, you just couldn't get one piece necks out of Gibson.

Because the line (crack) goes accross all three pieces, its no doubt a real crack..caused from being hit from the front of the headstock. It does not open with just the preasure of the strings. If I buy this one, I may make a jig that allows me to gently (and most importantly) control the amount of preasure I use to open the crack up. Just pushing it open could enlarge the crack and the repair. If I build a jig that has some sort of a turn screw or simular to open the crack, I can apply just enough preasure to get glue in side.

Thanks everyone. I will let you know if I end up buying this one!

Joe

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Joe

Is the crack on the neck side of the volute? If so, I think it was dropped so that the bottom of the headstock hit and the fulcrum was the nut. I that is the case then string tension would definately open the crack up unless it has been repaired in the past.

Another issue, although unrelated to the crack, is it looks as if the tuners were replaced at some point and the old screw holes plugged. Does this affect the value?

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

Good catch. It hat grovers or schallers on it at one time. For some small part, it does hurt the value a little, but the fact the originals are back on, is a plus. Everything is "ding" in value compared to an original unmolested piece. In the scheme of themes, having had other tuners hurts the value by only a few hundred dollars I guess. The lower the price, the less it affects the value. Grovers on a $500k burst hurts the value by $50K. Grovers on a 70's Les Paul deluxe hurts the value by $100. Same goes for all hardware. Headstock breaks and refins usually hurt value up to 40-50%.

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Joe