Official Luthiers Forum!

I've been pondering some things lately and I'd like to share some of my ideas with you all. They aren't fully formed yet so don't be shy if you think I'm full of it.

I think that there is a difference between a differentiator and a feature. Understanding this difference may be important in your designs. The difference, I believe, is that a differentiator is a design characteristic that makes one instrument different from others. It may be a different kind of head stock or a bracing pattern or perhaps a size or shape. A feature, however, is something that is clearly an addition to a base design. Pearl inlay, pick-up system, and exotic woods, fall into that category. It's hard to define but it's one of those "I know it when I see it" things.

The other important difference between a differentiator and a feature is that customers see the additional value of a feature and are willing to pay extra for it. They are not, however, willing to pay extra for a differentiator. The value of a differentiator is that the customer will choose the instrument with the differentiator over other instrument provided that the price is basically the same.

How does it effect the way we design our instruments? Since people won't pay for a differentiator, you have to be able to incorporate them with no additional costs. For example, Suppose you make a vintage instrument copy that requires custom tuners. The extra cost of those tuners will not be recovered because the $500 delta in price is not worth it to the customer. If you can do the instrument for the same cost as the traditional way, however, it is easier to sell the instrument because it appears to be worth more to the buyer even though the buyer wasn't will to pay for it. They thing they are getting something for free.

Suppose you have two of your instrument side by side at a show. One had the custom tuners and the other a traditional headstock. The customers will not be surprised that you are charging more the the custom instrument, But they will not buy it and will buy the conventional instrument. If, however, you have the instruments for the same price, I propose that you will sell the custom instrument before the standard and that you would sell more of the custom instruments.

So, when considering a design characteristic, make sure that it doesn't cost you anything extra. If it does, is it a feature that someone is willing to pay for? It must be perceived as clearly adding value above the stock instrument.

Interesting topic.

I am not sure that I agree that people won't pay for differentiators. Sometimes I think that is the ENTIRE reason why people buy the guitar (or choose that guitar over another). Kevin Ryan's fluted bevel is a perfect example. Clearly he is the ONLY builder doing this, so by my definitition it is a differentiator (to me a differentiator is a feature or design element that you exclusively own, or the public at large recognizes as yours even though others are using it -- such as the Manzer wedge.)

The other thing I have found is sometimes it is best to simply set the price of the guitar at what it should be and make no apologies for the price. If you have custom made tuners on the guitar that COST an extra $500 and drive the base price of the guitar up that is value. Not everybody is going to recognize it, or be willing to pay for it, but some will. Those are the customers you want to find.

I think the question is do we build the guitars that the market wants, or do we build the guitars we want, then find a market for them. It seems to me that if you want to reach the top of this craft you need to do the latter.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I agree and hope that this is the case. OTOH tradition is hugely important to many prospective clients. They see something that they like or have an iconic "dream guitar" that is their goal to one day own.

It's a bit risky straying too far from guitar tradition and differentiators can be viewed by some as going astray. Fortunately prospective buyers are as diverse in their personal tastes as builders are and hopefully there will be something for everyone. It is on my mind though how many folks are traditional Martin fans. I have no data but from the level of participation of the Martinish forums you don't have to be Federico Fellini to understand that this popularity represents a sweet spot in the market for custom guitars too.

I do think that it's a good idea though that before a builder looks to substantially differentiate themselves from the pack that they fully understand that the expectation will remain in play, always, that fit & finish, tone, and playability are the first order of the day. A guitar with a unique and exclusive differentiator that does not sound great or plays like a dog is not going to cut it.

It would seem that differentiators help to promote the individual builder and also support the idea of a hand-made instrument. Some differentiators have also turned into features over time.
Without differentiators, the “craft” may not move forward and evolve.
I know differentiators are not on trial but just thought I’d make the point of the “value” of trying new things and taking chances with innovation.
If a differentiator applied to a guitar design makes a successful instrument, than whether it sells or not depends on how good your marketing is, no?

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Just curious, Hesh, or anyone else, do you think those Martin fetishists buy many guitars from independent luthiers?
Walter

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Walter Lay
"It's taken me so long, but now that I know
I can see. All that I do or say, is all I ever will be"
- Billy Joe Shaver

Wade bro I completely agree with ya except that at the end of the day it comes down to the effectiveness of your marketing. There are lots of examples of products that were terrific offerings and even with decent marketing they didn't sell. Why? Because it was not ultimately what people wanted.

How does one determine in advance what people are going to want? That is what market research is for and exactly what the big corporations will spend tons of money on in advance of finalizing a product design.

We really can't do that but we can, and pardon the expression please, have a parasitic relationship with the marketing dollars that the big guitar producers are spending. When we see a very successful, get in line to get one offering from say Martin we may realize that the differentiators of this product, if any, are seemingly winning and desirable in the minds of prospective customers.

No level of marketing is going to make someone like something that their personal tastes just don't appreciate. But there is the numbers game meaning greater exposure will surely help us find the right buyer for what is being offered. And I am not calling you Shirley either.....

I just bought a new tuner that should be here today. I bought it because it work's a bit differently (a differentiator) than any other tuner that I have used. The companies marketing was effective and clearly explained to me on their web site why this product was different and more importantly why they believe it is better than the competition. So marketing worked on me but when I open the box this thing had better work well and be a quality offering or I won't be a happy camper.

When considering marketing one also has to understand if what they have to market is a commodity or something else. Some view guitars as commodities and some view them as something else including at times tools, art, etc. When dealing with products that predominantly represent craftsmanship and artistic expression good marketing or not it will come down to personal tastes and individual likes and dislikes.

Marketing is important but no amount of marketing can make something that people just don't understand or appreciate desirable. There is an old expression in marketing and sales and it goes like this - some will, some won't, so what - next..... I was always a bit offended by this expression.

Sorry Walter my friend I was being long winded and writing my post and did not see your question.

I am going to defer to Brock on this one because I honestly don't know. I can tell you that personally I went through the ranks of Martins, then small builder customs but I am a sampling of one.

I forgot my summary on my original post:

Differentiator: A characteristic of the instrument that is relatively unique and will cause the buyer to choose that instrument over another given that the price is about the same.

Feature: A characteristic of the instrument that is perceived by the buyer as adding value and that the buyer is willing to pay extra for.

The difference between the two is pretty mushy and probably varies from customer to customer but I contend that there is a general conscensis that put a characteristic in one category or another.

The pearl on the D45 is clearly a feature and customers know they will have to pay for it.

How much extra, however, does the market demand for a slot head over a solid head?

If I perceive this differentiator verses feature correctly. A differentiator is something you would do to beat-out your competitor. Example: the fluted bevel, the "Manzer wedge" etc. Aren’t differentiators just innovations developed through listening to the customer?



I would have to gently disagree with this statement. You’re not going to reach your full potential as a build if you’re not listening to what the market / customer wants.

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Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

It's all about definition. Define those terms and there you have it.

Differentiation has to be something that sets you apart. It could have a negative effect on the tone of the guitar but due to marketing have a positive effect on sales. Some might throw ovations out (as an example). It's probably more about marketing and aesthetics than anything else. It may not have an impact on the cost of the guitar. It could also be a feature that no one else is able to deliver (patented?) so something could be both a feature and a differentiation.

A feature then, would have to be somethng anyone could offer and likely increases the cost of the guitar. Some exceptions: joe's tuners vs. sal's., rosette A vs. rosette B.

Sure. Julius Borges, TJ Thompson, Dudenbostle, there are lots of very high end guitars being built that take the traditional Martin to a fanatical place. I think the market has a nearly insatiable demand for these guitars from recognized builders of accurate "vintage repro" instruments.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Mike, sorry if I have contributed to a hijacking of your post.
Defining differentiators and features is a good exercise for helping us to evaluate our guitars for ourselves as well as our customers, I should think.
But are you saying we should not expect to consider a differentiator as adding value to an instrument?

Thanks for your thoughtful post Hesh!

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Not Brock here but I don't think that Brock intended to have this interpreted as disregarding or not listening to customers. Instead methinks that Brock was saying that by differentiating yourself in a way that represents real value you can set yourself apart from the pack. I agree with this but I also know that it's a gamble and it may take time for your unique value proposition to gain acceptance. Nonetheless if you have time and perseverance and the ability to keep the blinders on toward your vision your dream just may come true. It's also a gamble to be one of the pack and a lot more crowded in there too......

This is a crowded industry and seemingly getting more crowded everyday. If one does not set themselves apart with something that is unique to their offerings be it a tone, a style, unique features, unique construction, etc. the best that one can hope for, ever, is to be one of the pack. Because there are so very many people building instruments substantially modeled after the traditional Martin models it's going to be difficult to command decent prices even if your guitars are exceptional instruments.

Building your own vision of what a guitar could/should be is a strategy that I agree with wholeheartedly but at the end of the day there has to be a market for your wares and an economic climate that supports sales of high-end custom guitars. Personally I am more worried about the market for guitars these days than any individual marketing strategy.

But I am not going to lose any sleep over it either. I learned a long time ago that when something troubles me - get busy!

If you are running a factory like Bob Taylor you are absolutely correct, but if you are building 6 - 12 guitars a year there is ALWAYS a market for the instruments provided they are good. The trick is in finding it.

If you don't believe me... I have two words for you.... Fred Carlson. I am sure there is no demand for those "guitars". There is no way the market could have ever "demanded" those instruments, but they are so cool and unique, and such works of art that they create their own demand.

There are lots of folks out there with products that are off the beaten path and they are doing ok.

Again, it seems to me that those that are truly at the very top of this craft (and I am not just talking about "good" or "talented") they have all built what they wanted and found the market for them.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

There is much truth in what people have said here and I don't disagree with most of it. I think that I've had some difficulty making my main point clear which is my fault. Let me try to put it in a slightly different way.

When designing an instrument it is important for the designer to consider the likely impact of the characteristics of the instrument. Is this characteristic going to increase the sale price or is it only going to make a customer choose this instrument over another mostly equivalent one. This assessment is necessary if the cost of the characteristic is greater than the default.

I've tried to give some rules of thumb to categorize things but they aren't hard and fast rules. With everything things can be a bit fuzzy.

If a customer comes to me with a commission and wants a Manzer Wedge, I'd probably try to tack on an upcharge for it. But, I believe that mosts customers wouldn't pay much for that. So I'd likely negotiate the price of the wedge down to list price if I thought that it would make the sale. The wedge doesn't cost me much more to make so I can use it as a differentiator for my guitars vs some other builder.

On the other had, if a customer wants BRW I'm going to have to make them pay for it. I'm pretty sure they would either pay the upcharge or go with a cheaper wood. The same would be true for anything that actually costs me more to add. For example, a Laskin arm rest would cost me a couple of weeks to add and I would have to charge for it. However, I think the arm rest is a differentiator and believe the most customers would not be willing to pay the upcharge. It is unlikely that I'd add an arm reset to a guitar I built on spec. Is an arm rest a differentiator or a value added feature? This is an area where there is a difference of opinion and ultimately there is no right answer for all cases.

When designing and instrument you have to evaluate what you are doing and make conscious decisions about what the return on investment is going to be.

I don’t quite know if I agree with this or not. Most understand that the greater the labor required the higher the cost will be. Now someone that is not looking for a Lasing arm rest may forgo the instrument due to price. But someone that appreciates the woodworking just may pick it up because of the extra cabinetry despite the fact they were not looking for a Laskin arm rest at the time. So i say the arm rest is a value added feature if considered an option in every case and likly over time to be a value added feature when the right clientel is looking.



This is true in all appointments in particularly those that are not specifically requested.

I was going to post this morning but ran out of time. When dealing with these semantic issues, the first place to go is the dictionary.

From the M-W site: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feature

3: a prominent part or characteristic etc.
4: a special attraction: etc....

So just about anything on a guitar is a feature, but not all are differentiators. e.g. bindings are a feature of almost all guitars, and some guitars feature a binding-less construction. Some features are standard, some are not. e.g. you can't really charge extra for binding/purfling, but you can charge extra for Ab purfling and fancy-shmancy binding.

I think that at the end of the day, picking-nits about the semantics of features and differentiators doesn't really get you that far. Pick your market, identify the features that market demands, differentiate yourself in that market without stepping on the features that "must be present". Or, build what you like/want, hope the market finds you.....or something in between. No need for thanks, I'm happy to give such a clear and definitive answer

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Point well given and taken Brock. I spent some time on Fred's web site and I encourage anyone interested in seeing the other side of the coin to visit http://www.beyondthetrees.com/ and read the text behind the instruments. Fascinating!

Hesh, I was thinking along those lines, that why I gently disagreed.

Mike. Thanks for the stimulating discussion. Ideas are easy to discuss, it's coming up with them that's difficult.

Regards,

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Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

Several years ago when I was starting to get more serious about this I talked to several highly experienced retailers in high-end factory and hand made guitars. To my surprise the advice was similar. Good wood, great sound and playability, and “Make it look like a Martin”. There was universal agreement not to make any differentiators/features very far off the traditional look.
I’ve been selling the last couple of years in a store that has been moving high-end factory and luthier stuff for 50 years. I have learned a lot from them.
I’m still a novice but as far as off the wall retail sales here are just a couple of things that have struck me in this area and seem to have some validity. (I have no experience with Guitar Show sales)
A good example of a differentiator that does not cost anything extra, and does not change the appearance of the guitar but seems to be a great marketing item in the present environment is the use of hot hide glue in construction.
Another is a traditional Nitro finish. For some reason it’s a selling point in my neck of the woods.
A good example of a feature that allows you to up the price a little without loosing the sale would be Waverley tuners.
One area where you may not make your money back would be offering an expensive fancy case vs. say a mid level TKL.

This is a really worthwhile discussion. I hope more folks with real world experience will share their knowledge.
Terry

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.