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While I poke away at getting the OOO pore filled and waiting for spraying weather, I decided to get started on another build. I have some figured maple I picked up from Jason at CVT and decided an OLF SJ would be just the ticket! So I put an order in for the plans yesterday.

Haven't decided what to use for a top. I have a WRC and a Carpathian, but I am leaning towards Sitka.

I'll likely have a few questions as I get underway, but I am looking forward to this one!

Ken

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Ken my friend the OLF SJ plans makes a great guitar. The body volume is much like a dread but it is a bit more compact and holds better IMHO.

You will like the plans they are great!!! Congrats!!!!

Ken, I'd go for the WRC, but than again, I'm biased towards it.



This is an OM shape but much deeper body at 4-5/8" at the tail.

Both the maple and the cedar came from CVT

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Ya Rod! I was going to bring that one up while reading Kens post. I liked that one so much I've slated my CVT maple and cedar to do a similar OM. I love the maple rosette on cedar too!

Thanks Zach, Looking forward to seeing yours.

Ya, Dave White and me are going to change all your minds. The real measure of success on the Maple Cedar will be if we can convince Colin S to make one

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Does the SJ come with a cut away option?

Mike

Hi Rod, Yeah, your's looks great! I posted a comment or two regarding the cedar and maple combo in your original thread. Your responses prompted me to get the cedar top when I ordered the maple. I have done more poking around since then and haven't run across many maple/cedar steel string combinations. I don't necessarily have a heavy hand when I play, but I also am not a fingerstylist. I usually play blues. The Gibson SJ is such a great, versatile guitar. I guess my fear with cedar is that I'll end up with a guitar requiring more of a delicate touch than I want. I am planning on going to Elderly's Monday to check out a few acoustics.

Ken

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Well Ken,

I've only built guitars with Cedar tops (5 to date, #6 is cedar, 7 & 8 are spruce)and all of the owners use them differently. One guy is heavy handed and I braced it a bit heavier, also gave it a bit longer scale to compensate for his playing style. Another is very light handed and my maple cedar is lightly braced as I wanted a finger style guitar so both of these got lighter bracing and standard scale length.

I put more weight on the shape and style of bracing when looking at the sound of a guitar versus the type of top wood used. Mind you a cedar top braced the same as a spruce top (assuming stiffness of each top is pretty much the same) will have a mellower/smoother sound versus the crisp/fast sound of a spruce toped guitar. My opinion of course.

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It is not an OM shape. It is completly differnt UB & LB shape and width. the way the curves of the shape blens are vastly different than an OM and the area ratio between upper and lower baouts is vastly greater. The waist is tighter and the upper bout is a more drastic arc than an OM. But other than that and the different body depths it is just like an OM

Michael

That's amazing that you can see all that all the way from Namm there MP To boot, your looking at a sharp perspective angle and not from straight on.

Oh, I forgot, you actually built that guitar in the picture my mistake.

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I can't take credit for that build on the design and plans it was built from

I'll confess, I felt a bit of a sting on your first comments, but I'll be alright.

The lower and upper bout are OM specific at 15" and 11-1/4" respectivly. Now I think the waist is a bit tighter (9") than an OM so that could be slightly different.

I'll retract that it's OM shaped and instead just say that the basic dimensions are the same or close to OM.

Is that better for you Mike

Isn't all that sort of like saying your SJ plans aren't really SJ based off the Gibson SJ model, or that Jim Olson's SJ isn't really an SJ because his are actually a full 7/8" smaller in the lower bout and the curvature of the top part of the upper bout isn't as flat as a Gibson SJ is?

fricken symantics

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back to the question at hand, i agree with rod that a cedar top does not neccessarily make for a guitar with low headroom. how thick you leave it and how you brace it will have a much bigger impact in my opinion.
i think the biggest difference will be in the quality of sound. a cedar top on maple will sound "warmer" and "fuller." players might say it has greater overtone content.
a sitka top on maple, on the other hand, will be very "bright" and emphasize the fundamental as oppossed to the overtones. i'm likely not using some of these terms correctly by left brain lutherie standards, but think i'm using them as most players would use them.
anyway, like i said, i think that when comparing cedar and sitka, the kind of sound will vary much more than the amount of sound.
phil

Okay, let's explore this cedar top thing a bit more. I am not a musician for hire, so I don't gig. I primarily play at home and occasionally get together with a couple of other guys, but then the Tele, Strat, or Les Paul come out. The SJ will likely not get out of the house much. Volume is not a big thing, which is why I am doing a smaller body. I mostly use a flat pick and play all sorts of blues along with songs by the likes of Hiatt, Wilco, Dylan, Clapton, Young, etc. I want good sustain, the bass strings to thump when I hit them, and good clarity. Can I get WRC to give me this? If so, can you share some recommended top thicknesses and comment on whether the bracing noted by MP in the plans should be tweaked for WRC. I bend strings a lot and don't have steel fingers, so I use light gauge strings. As I noted, I am heading to Elderly's on Monday and hope to locate a cedar topped steel string there to get a better feel for the wood.

I will likely go with a mahogany neck and would like to do something a little more exotic for the fingerboard, perhaps Madagascar Rosewood.

Ken

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Just received plans for the SJ and the Om model. They both have a lot of detail and look really good.
My first two builds have been from a plan I picked up here in England for a Martin model, which has a completely flat top.
I'm still unsure about getting datum lines correct on an instrument with both top and back curved, but the only way is to give it a try.
Has anyone any thoughts on which is the best to try first SJ or OM?
Has any build thread been set up already on the forum for these plans?

Charles.

Hi Charles, my plans showed up yesterday. I agree. Plenty of detail. Looks like a fun build!

Ken

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HI I am Michael Payne The designer of the SJ and drafter of the OM. These plans were originally developed for my lutherie buisness. Either set is fine to start with. nothing in techneqe is different between the two or three if you take the MJ into consideration. These are designe to my building specs, you of cource can change neck scale and such to fit your needs. I want to thank you for purchasing the plans the 70% of our (ie my self and the OLF's) profit from each set goes to help support this forum. I think you will find these are great plans and I know the long term members of this forum will testifi to the sonic quaility these plans will produce. I know that many of our member have built the OLF-SJ and have been very pleased. The OM is drawn to my bracing patter and the body is taken from a Martin OM.

Once again thank you for your patranage

Michael Dale Payne

Spent some time wandering around Elderly's today--Great way to spend a day off! I found several cedar tops. One was a really nice R. Taylor with Indian Rosewood B&S. An absolutely gorgeous looking and sounding guitar. I didn't find anything in maple and cedar, except for a Brace guitar, which really wasn't set up very well and didn't do much for me.

The R. Taylor sounded so good, I am encouraged a maple/WRC can sound very nice, so I am gonna do it!

I need to get a little input on voicing the cedar. I'd appreciate any input you can provide on thicknessing and tweaking MP's bracing to voice the cedar top.

Ken

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Ken there is not much different I would do for cedar that I would not do for Spruce. Start with a .115 top and brace as shown on the plans. You can shave the braces or scallop if referred as needed to voice. Don't let the top get too loose and Cedar will be fine

Totally agree with Michael. Don't get to aggressive on thicknessing (I'd start it out at .125 after rosette is level) and once you've done the final sanding you'll be around the .115-.120 thickness which should be just fine. Just FYI, my last guitar (also the cedar maple shown above) has the top at 0.105 at the outer edges and 0.110 at the soundhole and bridge area.

One suggestion for you on the cedar. After you've got the rosette leveled and you're ready to flip the top and start the bracing, sand the top to 220 (on the face, not inside) and apply 2-3 thin coats of shellac. This will help protect the top from minor scratches and dings as cedar seems to scratch and dig just from looking at it the wrong way .

Have fun and make sure and show us lots of progress pics, we like that.

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Thanks Michael and Rod. One followup: In the past, I have carved my top bracing from the same kind of wood used for the top. When you guys do cedar tops, do you use cedar bracing?

Ken

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I have use Cedar bracing in the past but found it a tad lacking in long grain stiffness for my likening. Most Cedar top I have built I have use Addi or Sitka

Michael,

You have any thoughts on doing a cutaway with your SJ plan?

Mike

I've not used cedar for bracing. I would think you'd need to make it much higher to get the same strength out of a smaller piece of spruce.

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"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Never mind. Just noticed all of the plans offer cutaway options. How much bigger is the medium jumbo compared to the SJ? (back width plz)

Mike