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Well I thicknessed the side today. I don't think the drill press are designed for milling/planing operations so while the table is level there are still tilted by about .005-.01 or so and I don't think there is anything I can do about it (raising or lowering the table will change this) so I think I will plane it close then sand it the rest of the way (and the marks from the planer as well)


What do you think?

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Even if you resaw on a bandsaw, you have to sand it down. Thats what a thickness sander will do for you. If I recall, you do not have a lot of space, right? A thickness sander takes up little space (10-20) and makes little sound (w/o a dust collector). 'Course, it will make a huge dust mess... Just put your house vac near the vac port.

Mike

Yea but I think I might get a belt sander and take it slow... I don't think I can afford a thickness sander. Or just do it by hand (scraper and sandpaper)

is .07 too thin for an acoustic guitar side? I hope I didn't make some expensive firewood...

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

To me its kind of thin... If that is where it is now, you may not have a lot of room left for leveling, scraping and sanding. But I think you need advice from more experienced folks.

If tools are an issue, why not but serviced kits?

Mike

This is my second build... I did a serviced kit on my first build I was only trying to do a little more each time. I thought that for cutaways they actually thin the side to as much as .065 or something to make it easier to bend.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

It's probably not too thin. .070" is 1.77mm, i often use 1.5mm sides, and cellos often have sides of 1mm. You won't have a lot of room for sanding things flat after bending though.

Once the sides are in the ballpark, many of us do the final thicknessing using the "airplane method", where you hold the side in the middle and move it it up and down, like flapping wings to get a feel for the flexability, and slowly take it down to final thickness.

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

Excessive witness marks are a sign of the table not being perpendicular to the centerline of the drill press spindle.

If you have an extended table bolted on top of your drill press table, you can shim it to get it perpendicular to the centerline of the drill press spindle. Get a coathanger and bend a piece of it to that it can scratch a circle about 8 - 12" dia. when it's mounted in the chuck. Bend it so it barely hits your extended table when you turn the spindle by hand. Where it hits the table, that's a high spot. Where it doesn't hit, that's low. Shim the extended table until you can make it barely scrape the table through 360° of rotation of the spindle. The DP should be set to spin somewhere around 4,000 RPM. Make sure the Safe-T-Planer is very sharp, feed the stock slowly and take small bites.

Here's my setup. Although slow, it works well.

The drum sander I recently got has been a godsend.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I made the same mistake on my first safty planned set. I use a separate wood table, and I used the coathanger trick to find any high spots, and scraped flat. And then the plexi-wood dust shield goes on, it needs to press down the wood pretty flat. I still got swirl marks, not pressed down hard enough. I will submit to thickness sanding, but its still only .010 or so, not the usual .050.

Now you have half a 'double side' set..

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

Robbie O'Brian does a very helpful video demonstration on the use of the safety planer here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfaLmBGK ... annel_page

Actually, his entire series of "Luthier Tips Du Jour" is excellent. This might not be in time to help you with your current project, but it'll give you some tips and encouragement for the next one.

It is extremely helpful to make a feeler gauge out of coat hanger, as is recommended above. That was also recommended in the instruction sheet that came with my safety planer.
Also, note that Robbie shims his table so that the planer is only cutting during half of its revolution. Very interesting.

Don't give up on the tool yet. It is capable of doing some good work for you, and is a nice tool to have if you don't have space or budget for a thickness sander. You will, of course, need to do some scraping or sanding.

Good luck.
Patrick

Well, when you said .07", I assumed you meant in its current state (rough). Any sanding, leveling, scraping is going to take it thinner. I dunno about cutaways, perhaps the cutaway wall is thinner, but final thickness on the rest, I would think, would be bit a smidge thcker.

It is what it is. Level it, bend it, and see what happens. If it works, great. If not, you got some good rosette material. Live to fight another day. I have a lot of wood hanging around that I have screwed up. That's how I learn.

I think I still want a safe-T planer. Always nice to have an arsenal.

Mike

Tai Fu buddy before I got my Performax 10-20 I used a Wagner with good success.

As Pat said the trick is to have a very level table and I also used the coat hanger trick to check the table. My table was not able to be adjusted level, at least by me, so I made a false table and used pieces of tape to level it.

It's a very inexpensive way to greatly improve the results of the Wagner and once the table was in use my swirl marks were nearly eliminated.

I would also check for any run-0ut in the drill press itself. I have big one that is worthless if you're looking at precision processes because it has so much run-out.

I read on the MIMF where someone asked if .070 was too thin. Mario said "No", in his usual verbose manner.

Darrin

OK, 'splain the coat hangar trick....

Mike

The coat hanger trick will be illustrated in the instructions that come packed with the tool, but it's easy to do. You straighten a piece of hanger wire about ten or twelve inches long. Then you bend about 2 inches of it up at a right angle. On the other end, you bend a few inches of it DOWN at a right angle. Chuck the two inch length in your drill. Raise the table until the the lower point of the coat hanger just "kisses" the table. Then rotate the chuck manually. DON'T TURN ON THE DRILL!!! If the wire "kisses" the table through a full revolution, then the table is level and square to the drill chuck. Most likely, you'll find that it drags a little on one side, and doesn't quite touch the table on the opposite side. Then you adjust the table accordingly, or you make a shimmed add-on table, as shown above. Takes a little time, but there's nothing difficult about it.

Drill speed is important when you are actually using the safety planer. Too slow, and it catches and chips your wood. Too fast, and it's...well...too fast. I can't tell you how fast is too fast. It worked real well for me on walnut at about 1000--1100 rpm, so I didn't go any faster. (I have an odd replacement pulley on my motor shaft, and I've never calculated the precise rpm speeds that it delivers) I'd like to read about that myself, so if anybody would care to give more information on speeds, please do!

Was Mario 'banned' or something?

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

Not at all - Mario is taking a break from the OLF and remains the very valued member that he always has been. I personally would love to see him return too but I also respect him greatly and as such respect the choices that he has made for himself regarding his participation here.

No, I just always get a kick out of his answers. He answers the question as asked. Just comes across as very stoic at times. Stuff he says always sticks in the back of my mind. Even more than what I've read of his own answers is the obvious value that members place on his advice/recommendations.

Darrin

This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway.

If the safety planer is so slow and tedious to use, what makes a preferable to a hand plane?
Walter

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Walter Lay
"It's taken me so long, but now that I know
I can see. All that I do or say, is all I ever will be"
- Billy Joe Shaver

Reading this thread, I had the same question....
I really like my newly acquired (antiqueish) #4 Stanley and it seems a bit more straight forward for thicknessing.... Maybe I just like hand planes...

Figured wood is easier to deal with using a Wagner, or a thickness sander, at least for me. Many of us have had a side or back blow out in a planer while working it down towards finished thickness. If you haven't, you're missing a rush! Some of the same considerations are there with hand planing- just happens slower. Probably just some chatter or tearout....But then, I 'm not a hand tool wizard! YMMV!
BTW, the Wagner can do things that planes aren't well suited for- peghead taper /thicknessing, neck profiling- great tool!

Walter,

It's a generational thing. Some of us older guys have to protect creaky bones and joints. The SP is good for that. I would agree that using a plane is more enoyable.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I don't think of the safety planer as being slow. It cuts FAST--but it will require several passes at different fence settings to plane a board that is wider than its cutter head. That's why a wide thickness sander is quicker for some operations. On the other hand, it's less expensive and stores in a drawer when not in use. It's very versatile, and will, indeed, do a variety operations that would otherwise require separate tools--some of them BIG tools. Just think of it as a useful device to have on hand, and don't shy away from buying one. You'll find plenty of uses for it. As I posted earlier in the thread, watch Robbie Obrian's tutorial on thicknessing backs and sides with the tool. Or watch Bob Benedetto taper his guitar neck and establish the edge profile of his arched top in a matter of seconds (demonstrated on his video/DVD series). You'll start thinking about ways you can use one. Having said all that, if I had the budget and the space for a thickness planer and a thickness sander, I would own both. But I'd still go to my safety planer for a lot of operations.

Hi Steve and welcome to the OLF!!! Great post too!!!

Pat a generational thing indeed it is! We need an old fart emoticon..... I would use it often, if I could remember where to find it....

What Patrick said and I will add that if you use it at face level (table top drill press) wear a full face mask...... My WSP launched a bridge blank right into my mouth...... It was VERY painful too.......



Actually the pic is from my return from the dentist but I thought it might drive the point home and hopefully prevent someone else from getting a bridge black in the mouth.