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My friends I have been cleaning up this table saw and setting it up as the manufacturer intended. Some of the safety features/devices such as the belt guard/housing and blade guard...... had been removed by the previous owner. I now have everything back in place after a trip to my local hardware store.

I want to add some dust collection to this saw. The previous owner added a board that completely covered the bottom of the saw. He said that prior to adding this board all the dust went on the floor and at least this board contained some of the dust in the saw and he would clean it out as needed.

I am thinking of adding a dust port in the bottom of the board and of course all I have is my 134 CFM dust extractor with a 1 7/8" hose. After figuring out how to get the stinkin board out which was as simple as tilting the blade to 45 degrees and raising the thing too...... it's now out and ready for the addition of a dust port.

My question is do you think that this will be worth it? I don't expect to get all of the dust but the finer, airborne stuff is what I am most concerned about. Like the previous owner I don't mind, and in fact could not sleep at night...., if I didn't clean out the saw after using it.

The back is wide open but I could make covers that avoid the belt and close 90% of that up. On the front is a curved opening for the tilt feature but again nothing that some good old tape could not handle.

Here are some pics and one additional question to follow:







And... my last question is would someone please let me know what the blade is that Mario turned us onto that he uses and where I can get a couple of them? Also any limitation on this blade where I should be using another kind of blade would be helpful too.

Many thanks!!!

Hesh....how about something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Table-Saw-Dust-Hood ... .m20.l1116

Enclose the stand (looks like one side is open), add this to the bottom, connect your dust collector and you should be good to go.

Not sure what blade Mario recommended, but the Woodworker II blade from Forrest always seems to get good marks when table saw blades are tested. It's available in regular and thin kerf.

Hesh...I should have also mentioned that you will need an adapter to fit your hose to the 4" dust hood opening. You should be able to find one at pretty much any wood working store, or make your own from plywood or MDF.

Hesh, congrats on the new saw (new to you anyway). Table saws make a lot of dust. They do make little bags that can attach to the bottom of the saw. It would give you more volume to collect more dust/chips. you could attach a fitting to it to hook up your dust extractor.

On my old contractor style saw I made a hardboard piece to cover the back. I just used magnets to attach it. You just make a slot to allow it to fit around the rods that mount the motor and the belt. Tape may help to keep the dust from coming out of the front of the saw, but tilting the blade will require you to remove the tape. Again a maybe a piece of hardboard with magnets would allow for quick detaching. In actuality you dont want the entire thing air tight as you need to have some flow of air so your extractor doesnt just buckle down and suck the whole saw in.

I've seen commercially made (Biesemeyer) and shopmade overarm blade guards with good dust collection and that would also be an option.

I don't know what blade Mario spoke of, but there are some really good blades out there. If you get a thinner kerf blade, you'll probably need a blade stiffener. Making or buying a zero-clearance throat insert is also a must IMO to reduce tear-out.

Respect your saw and don't stand in the line of fire should anything come right back at you. Get your rip fence EXACTLY parallel to your miter slots and your blade EXACTLY parallel to your miter slots as well.

Darrin

Hesh, I've tried the dust bag under the table saw. I'm not too impressed with performance. With my old Craftsman, there are so many orifices, many which have to be left open in order to adjust saw tilt, etc. that dust blows out all over. I just don a dust mask and turn on my overhead JDS filter.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

Hesh,

That blade was a 7 1/4" Freud Diablo in 24 and 40 tooth persuasions. I got one on Mario's recommendation, and it's a little dream to use. If you're not cutting thick, hard wood, not pushing too hard, it does fine without a blade stiffener. They're cheap and readily available at hardware stores. I think mine was $16 a few years ago.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Yeah, that's the same blade that Grant Goltz turned me onto. The 24 tooth blade will produce smooth edge cuts in hardwood that you won't believe. The cabinetmaker in you is going to twitch really hard when you have to pass over the 40 tooth blade to get to the 24 tooth blade, but I think it must be the ideal size gullets for clearing out the chips.

I'm sure the Festool sucks, but you'd probably need quite a bit more than that to extract all the chips and dust from a tablesaw. Got room for a Clearvue CV1400?

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

hesh, there is hope of getting some of that dust from finding its way into the air, but im going to be straight with you... its going to require some creative engineering and im not sure how much help your little festool dust collector is going to be to you. i have a 1400 cfm DC with hoses hooked to a blade shroud and to the cabinet on my table saw and ive still almost given up on duct collection to the TS. i think your best bet is a shroud around the blade on either side of the table top with the DC hose hooked to it. if you had a higher cfm DC i would say one hose to the shroud and one to an enclosed base of the TS. they do make a bag that goes under the table top to enclose the stand on a contractor style saw, but i cant remember where i saw it and i have no idea how well it works. i realize, im not much help, but that just my experience with the TS. actually, i should probably just delete this post because it was worthless.

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sweat the small stuff.

this is the hood i was thinking of... so not completely worthless.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?P ... ilyID=5140

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sweat the small stuff.

Hesh,
Here is what I came up with. I saw something similar to this in a Wood Magazine several years ago so I built it and it works great. About the only dust I get from a regular saw blade is some chips will come back off the blade but almost 0 fine dust escapes. It also makes a great outfeed table. The top of the outfeed table just lifts off so I can remove the blade guard easily when I need to. Under the saw you can see there is a box to collect the bigger stuff and my dust collector port is under the motor so dust never builds up around it. I have also posted a picture of the dust collector I built from plans in Wood Magazine also. It uses a diesel truck air filter so there isn't much that escapes that.
Mike

Hi Hesh,
with the volume of chips and dust potentially produced by the table saw, you should probably consider getting a larger dust collector. Bill Pentz (DIY dust collection guru, google him) won't hear of anything less than 6" pipes, mine are all 4" though and barely adequate I guess. In addition to an outtake at the bottom, a shroud that covers the blade will allow you to collect more of the dust from there, but it can make some sawing operations cumbersome and obstruct your view, which are not good things. I think the best compromise is to collect as much as you can from below the blade, and use an overhead air cleaning system to collect the air borne stuff.

I'll second (or third?) the recommendation for the Freud Diablo blades, they have worked very well for me. Their thin kerf will waste less wood and hence produce less dust than larger, conventional blades and they last a long time. I believe they are making them slightly thicker now than they used to, though. Thanks for that tip, Mario!

You didn’t bring it up, but now that I see it: How good is the fence on your saw? I consider the fence one, if not the, most important part of the table saw. I have a Biesmeyer, but other brands are probably equally good and some have more options (like micro adjustment etc). A good fence is important botch for accuracy and safety, and you can always upgrade your saw later and put your good fence on that.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Hesh -

Sears used to have a drop-in bottom dust collection thing - sort of a pyramid shape with a 4" port in the bottom, for that saw. It may be worth checking to see if what they sell now still fits it. I use it but still have the back open, so the solution is incomplete.

I've been meaning to cover the back of mine with a plastic sheet with cutouts for the belt and motor assembly, but haven't gotten around to it so I can't say how much it would help. Mine sits on a rolling stand right inside one of the garage doors, so dust is often getting dropped in the driveway - a low priority cleanup.

Regarding Todd's recommendation for a zero clearance insert and the little Woodcraft splitter - I tried to go that route with one of the pre-made insert plates sold by Woodcraft and other places for this purpose, but the plate marked as being for Craftsman saws is too deep (thick) for this saw. I had to go with my own plywood solution. I just wanted to let you know that the commercial plate isn't a good impulse buy. I haven't tried sanding the commercial plate thinner yet either. It is worth it to work out a solution in this area. You will find that the blade guard on that saw really stinks the place up. The splitter is flimsy and gets bend out of alignment just from handling. It's hard to fight the impulse to leave it off, so going with the zero clearance insert and the short plastic splitter is a good safety solution. The splitter is short enough that you can leave it on, like a riving knife, in a number of cross-cut applications.


Blades - above discussions have hit all my favorites. 10" WWII for most work, the 7.5" Freud Diablos for finer work, and I use one of Shane's blades for fret slotting. I have found that the Stew-Mac fret slotting blade that I have makes a slot that is a little too narrow in ebony. (I asked SM about this since I had heard that they had a run of blades that were narrower than spec, but they say mine is one of the correct ones - calipers agree). It's a pain having to partially mash all the fret barbs. Shane's blades (particularly his first run) are a little thicker, and better to work with when ebony is the preferred fretboard.

Jim

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I think my dust collector is 1.5 HP with 4" pipes. I have very little problem with it as long as I keep the blast gates clear so they will completely close. I have mine plumbed to a shaper, planer, jointer, table saw and a 16-32 drum sander. I originally tried the plastic attachment that goes under the saw using a shop vac without much luck. I notice my dust collector is a little underpowered when I use the planer. It is the furthest away from the DC and it puts out a lot of chips and a small amount is left behind. I also have two ceiling mounted dust collectors that I wouldn't want to be without.
Mike

With a contractor's saw, I think MikeG has the best approach. My Dad built a similar box around his table saw, which works quite well.

I have a Jet cabinet saw with built in dust collection port. Even with that, this saw will throw a lot of dust in the air--I use zero clearance inserts that don't help the dust collection either. I didn't notice if you have an air filter in your shop. If you don't have one, I'd get one. I share my shop with my cars, so dust is a real pain. My biggest nemesis is my router!

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

Hesh, I forgot to mention...I use Forrest blades. They are expensive, but they cut like butter. You will also find that if you use a dampener (http://www.forrestblades.com/dampner.htm) with that contractor's saw, you will get smoother cuts. Get a good, well balanced blade, a dampener, make sure your fence and table are exactly 90 degrees to your arbor (or perfectly parallel to your blade) and you will be impressed by the cuts you'll get from that saw.

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

One other big advantage to the little Diablo blades is that they are thinner, and make less dust to begin with. I only put on a 10" blade when I need to get a deeper cut, and always marvel at how much more stuff it spits into the air.

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Gabriel Regalbuto
Carlsbad, California
Freedom 35!

Collecting dust from a table saw is like trying to herd chickens. Too much gets out of the normal stream. Most folks do not use a blade hood, either, as it is in the way of seeing and cutting when working with small cuts. As has already been stated, when you add a Zero Clearance insert to the mix, there goes the air flow to suck the dust down. The blade throws the dust at you, the user of the saw. One thing is that most dust created by a table saw is fairly large as dust goes, so falls fast, and can be swept or vacuumed up pretty easily.

The little 7 1/4"Diablo blades also come in a 60 tooth model that is really smooth cutting. They are great.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Another thing to consider on dust collection is the quality of the far end fitlering.. and its area. I recently converted from a 1 micron filter bag (cloth type) to a 1 micron pleated cannister filter. the cannister also has a flapper inside to knock the dust off the pleats. The improvement in air flow was huge compared to the bag, I would say maybe 15-20 %. You can also tell when the filter is clogging, as the air flow and suction at the hose end drops. At least its simple to get back to full speed ...

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Hesh,
Think about getting a sheet of fridge magnet material and cutting it to suit the various openings on your saw to seal it. If and when you need to tilt you can slip them off and replace them quite quickly.
Cheers Chopper

That is exactly what I am learning after reading everyone's very valued input here. OK so if I go with a zero clearance insert which it sounds like I have to make in order to get it to fit this saw and blade what material would you recommend?

Also, although this has to be one of those "don't try this at home" moments when it comes to safety and what kind of info we should be careful about posting - I am also getting the feeling that the blade hood is not used by all. Is this correct? Also does this mean that I nix the riving knife assembly too and if so do I replace it with anything else?

I guess what I am looking for is someone to tell me how to set this baby up i.e. zero clearance insert, no blade hood, riving knife??? etc. The dust collection issues looks like as Waddy said cleaning up after using and having an air cleaner in the saw room which I do have already.

All the info about how to set up a table saw in general such as getting the fence exactly parallel to the miter slots and blade is also greatly appreciated - this was stuff that I did not know either......

So many thanks everyone and I would welcome some specific direction now.....

Thanks Tony and Chopper you guys and I all posted at the same time. The magnet idea is excellent - where do you buy the stuff?

Here is the blade that I picked up at my favorite local mom & pop hardware store - $13.00 wow - such a deal.....

Right you are, Waddy. Also, dust coming off the back of the blade, above the table, could also mean the back of the blade is doing some cutting (which it shouldn't) a sign that perhaps the blade/miter slot or blade/fence are not parallel. Smaller blades are more tolerant of this.

Hesh,

That's the one!

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Hi Hesh,

For zero clearance inserts, what I usually do is get some plywood that is less than the overall height of your Craftsman insert. (I'll bet you'll need 3/8" plywood for your saw, but it might be 1/2") Rip it to exactly the correct width of the insert. Make sure the blade is at 90°, then drop the blade down all the way. Unplug the saw. Remove the insert, flip it, and place it on the plywood, and trace it. cut it out on your bandsaw, maybe a touch here and there with your stationary disc sander. (I recommend you make half a dozen while you're at it.) Now that it will fit snuggly in the insert hole, insert it in the insert hole. You'll notice that it isn't level with the table, so let's fix that: reach up under the saw, and trace the insert hole onto the plywood. (Do that for all the prepared plywood inserts that you made, or else you can just do one and use it to guide you through the rest.) You'll see "ears" or ledges where you can make your custom inserts height adjustable.

Drill a shallow pilot hole in each ear on the plywood, and screw in a small (maybe #6 x 1/4" flathead phillips) screw in each hole. Screw them all the way in, then back them off a hair. Play with the height on each screw until the insert is dead flush with the saw table top.

Now, bring the fence over, and lock it down, covering some of the insert, but obviously not too close to where the blade will come up. Oh yeah, if you have a scale, make sure you are past 0"

Plug the saw back in, put on your goggles. Turn on the saw, and crank the saw blade up through the insert. Voila! Zero-clearance insert.

I have made these using plastic, but once they get chewed up, you'll see its not worth it. Then you'll be glad you made a bunch of plywood ovals.

HTH,

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Dennis bro - perfect!!! This is exactly what I am looking for - direction and how to accomplish the recommendation!

Question: With this 7 1/4" blade how thick a material can I cut with it? This will also tell me how much to raise the blade while cutting the gash/slot in the insert.

Thanks!!!!

Hesh,

I don't know how your table adjusts, but get a large square and run one edge along your blade so it touches each side of the blade. You can have it touch a tooth on each side or rest against the blade, just make sure you don't have it resting against a tooth on one side and the blade on the other. Extend the square down as far to the front of the table as you can and measure the distance from your miter slot. Then flip the square so you can now measure the distance from the blade line to the miter slot at the rear of the table. These distances need to be identical. If they are not, rotate your table top or motor until they are the same distance. Once they are, do the same thing with your fence. Lock the fence in position and take measurements. As your miter slots are now perfectly aligned, you can measure from the miter slots or use the square and measure off the blade. Some of the fences that come with contractor saws are junk and no tweaking of the blade alignment will fix a fence that sets a different angle to the blade every time it is locked down.

Once your saw is all aligned, you can make a zero clearance insert, get a piece of oak or maple, whatever scrap you have lying around of the right size. Cut it out, thickness it, then with the insert in and taped down, start the motor and slowly raise the blade to cut the opening.

I don't have any of the safety items installed on my cabinet saw. I don't necessarily recommend this, but I feel they would cause more danger by me trying to hold them out of the way to make a narrow cut. I always have a push stick next to the fence and use a featherboard to hold smaller stock against the fence while cutting. And I never put my body directly behind the piece of wood sandwiched between the blade and the fence. I value the family jewels too much!

Ken

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