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Six years ago I designed a Yellow rose of Texas peghead and vine fretboard inlay for a client and received permission from the client to use the inlay as one of my options. Well 4 years ago I stopped cutting my own shell because I found a supplier that could supply the shell to me cut for less than my labor cost + material. (That would be Andy Depaule by the way and he gives credit on his site to me for the designs of each design of mine he offers) After a year or so Andy asked if I would mind him retailing a few of my designs and I gladly allowed him to knowing that other luthiers would end up using them. I was fine with that.

Well over the Holliday week I ran across 2 web sites and one advertisement in a major guitar publication where the builders were using the Yellow Rose of Texas vine as their main sales image. So I did a friendly under cover inquiries call to both asking where they came up with the inlay design. The first was up front and said he buys the inlay from Depuale. On the other hand the second builder pawned the design off as his own. Being that this builder was not in Texas I asked what was his inspiration for the design and he told me he designed it for a client that lives in Texas.

There was no doubt both builders bought the inlay from Depaule as there are characteristics about the rose pedals, vine and flag that would mot be easy to duplicate exactly the same way even if copied from a photo.

I did not intend, up front to confront either builder as I openly and willingly allowed Andy to retail these designs. However I was so taken back by the one builders out and out falsehood design story that I had to, nicely give him the facts on where the design came from and that I was the designer and that I knew he bought the inlays for Depaule. I did not require any thing of either builder, However one now gives written credit to Depaule for supplying the precut shell and me as the designer to which I am grateful as it was not required. The other just hung up on me.

Charming. Such bad form.

Giving credit for direct ideas taken from other luthiers is part of the ettiquette, is it not? Doesn't cost a penny, either.

...and I would be more inclined to expose the SOB!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Michael,

The guy who hung up on you will get his just desserts. This endeavor of guitar building has thrived so much on the sharing of ideas and information that someone operating dishonestly is going to dig him-(or her-)self into a hole someday.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Michael my friend I am all for providing proper attribution where attribution is due or even just part of being a decent person.

But perhaps, just perhaps the second builder had no idea that this was your original design and no inclination to list everything that they may have outsourced as indeed being outsourced.

The way I see it is when this design was permitted to be retailed the stage was set for someone to not know that attribution was even due even if not required.

As for hanging up on you if I had received the same call under the same circumstances I would be inclined to think that you are making a claim against me and respond accordingly. Although hanging up on you is not my style someone once told me never point a gun at anyone if you do not fully intend to use it. The person you called felt threatened by the call - plain and simple.

Don't take this the wrong way either please but if I knew that something that I could purchase might include future contact under confusing circumstances with a stake holder I would purchase something else..... Think of the term clear title....

I am sorry that this happened to you, no one likes to get hung up on, but again when we place something in the public domain those who partake of what ever it is may not understand that you had anything to do with it and that there is an ethical responsibility, perhaps - depending on the circumstances, to acknowledge you.

I have a bridge design that is now available from a vendor. All I ever asked from the vendor was that I be listed in promotional materials as the designer. There is no royalty agreement and I didn't want one either. When and if folks purchase this bridge and use it on one of their guitars I expect no attribution. It also would not surprise me if it was represented as another builder's original design. I don't care, I won't be calling, I just wanted to do something cool for others not unlike how cool it is that we have the Williams jig, Karol Wells jig, Fox bender, etc.

In all likelihood, he will not get what he deserves soon enough unless the deceit is exposed. People and companies often have their patents infringed. Unless they defend their patents there is nothing in the law that protects the owner. In that case, it costs the patent holder to defend his intellectual property. In this case, it costs nothing to defend one's honor.

In this case, all it requires is standing up to the "bully". Yes, this is nothing more than a bully stealing Michael's lunch money in the playground. It's Michael's honor and generosity that are at stake. In posting the incident, it's unclear as to whether we are to feel sorry for the disrespect shown to Michael...or whether he's looking for encouragement as far as going forward and doing the right thing.

I choose to encourage! With all due respect, Bro, there's nothing flattering about letting some jerk pick your pocket and letting him get away with it. Our great practice of sharing and generosity will only continue to thrive and survive if we encourage the good behavior and discourage the opposite.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Thanks JJ but to be clear my posting this and my initial call to the two builders had nothing to do with the fact others are using the inlays. it was the fact both were using an image of the inlay as there main add photo. To me to use a focal point image in a add photo implies "Look!!! this is my work". Then to lie about it over the phone. That is moronic!.

I believe it was Greven (I can be miss remembering the builder here so correct me If I am wrong) that used the leaves leafs from my Japanese Maple leaf vine in a guitar shown at HGF this past year. he has no idea who I am and I felt nothing but pride when I saw photos of the guitar. But those photos were not used by him in a paid for advertisement.

My only complaint about any of this was that the one builder lied by representing the inlay as his design. He never knew I was the originator of the design till after he told is fib.

That's my only point as well, Michael. The fact that he represented it as his own.

Whether others buy it from Andy and not give attribution is not my point at all...it's only the deceit and dishonesty of someone who passes it off as his own. And more importantly, he shows disrespect toward you. That's an important issue in my book. And if a builder is going to misrepresent such as his own work then folks should be aware of his integrity-challenged persona. Would I buy a guitar from someone who is so dishonest, hell no! And I sure would appreciate knowing if someone did such a dishonest act. The craft can only maintain integrity if its members are willing to protect others from cheaters...sorta like the way golf is supposed to work.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ,

I agree that he won't get his just desserts soon enough, especially what we think he deserves (after all we're talking about OUR Michael here!). I think that, if he uses deceit in this business, it will come back on him in some way, but yes, not soon enough.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

As a result of this thread, I suspect it WILL happen quick enough. Take it outside boys

I am flattered just disapointed that the one guy was miss representing it as his design. But I kind of figured this was going on to some degree.

People do not take my post as me complaining. I am really not. The reason I posted in the first place was only to show that there are those that will take credit for you work. But that is OK because there are more that do the right thing.

Your reputation precedes you. May you always do what's right, and you'll be blessed, and often rise to the top. Don't be tempted by the voice of vengeance. It's like drinking a bitter cup and expecting the other to suffer from it