Official Luthiers Forum!

The latest Luthier Tips du Jour video is on the air.
The topic is glues and their application to lutherie
This one had so much info I had to make it in two parts

As always, comments and discussion are welcome.
Enjoy!

Part I


Part II

Robbie;
I'd love to look at your tips-but I'm actually in the foot hills of the Adirondacks and on dial-up!!
But I have nice spruce !!
Mike !!

_________________
Mike Collins

Robbie - Thanks for the clear, concise Video De Jour! Who is that short, blue dressed luthier in the HHG portion?

_________________
Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

the links are not opening for me....jody

Working fine on my end Jody

I haven't had time to watch the vids yet, but I started the first to make sure it would work. It worked fine.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

That would be one of my shop managers.

Nice videos Robbie. Man, I need a shop manager like that around my house. She looks like a sweetheart!

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Great videos!! Very helpful for those of us just starting out. Thanks a lot for the effort it takes to make them!

Quick question - if fish glue has all the benefits as hide glue, but you don't have to mix and cook it, Why is it not exclusively over hide glue? ... just curious. I would like to try some hide glue some time.

justin

Some people, me not included, think it is more hygroscopic than other glues. The other thing is that it requires a clamp time of at least 12 hours. Some don't like it for that reason, but others use it a lot. As Robbie said, it's great for gluing backs and stuff like that where the open time is a plus.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Some builders do use it exclusively over hide glue. I have built entire guitars with it. Some guys just really feel like real craftsman if they use hide glue but I don't think the guitar knows the difference or really cares.

Also fish glue is pretty messy. You can wipe some of it up but it always seems to leave a layer behind; so you want to be sure not to spread it when you are cleaning it up.

Great job Robbie. Is it normal that I find these videos just as entertaining as informative?

_________________
Jeremy Douglas

Thoroughly good stuff, Robbie. It was very well timed, as I want to try hide glue & flish glue with my next build.

Fantastic always await the next one with bated breath and will be disappointed when they eventually finish. Well Done again maintaining the quality must be hard!

_________________
Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Hey Robbie

Excellent video, as are all the other ones. Congrats and thanks!

Dake Traphagen mentionned in an article in GAL magazine that he now uses fish glue exclusively. You talk a bit about fish glue in the video, but I would like to know a little more about it, such as:

-strength, compared to Titebond and other glues
-reversability: does it break down easily with heat?
-effectiveness on oily woods
-does it lose its properties if frozen? I am asking because if it does, shipping in winter becomes an issue
-does it have a high water content? Is is OK to use when glueing fretboards?

Any other pros and cons on fish glue would be appreciated.

Cheers

Pat

You can get answers to all of those questions by emailing Norland. I got a bunch of questions answered about 7 or 8 months ago, and Norland, himself, responded to my questions. I posted the responses here. Most of those questions had to do with the Hygroscopic qualities of the glue. I believe, either Shawn or David, reported that Romanillos used it exclusively at the building school so they wouldn't have to keep glue pots working.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Pat,
I have never used it on oily woods.
It does have water in it just like hide glue and titebond for that matter. I have used it to glue fretboards without issue.
I keep mine inthe fridge but have never frozen it. People freeze hide glue and re-use it so I don't see why you couldn't with fish glue as well.
One of the reasons to use fish glue is because of its reversibility. It can be easily reversed with moisture and a bit of heat.
I have never done any scientific strength testing but I can't pull apart anything I have glued with it.

Another great video Robbie, I watched both.

I emailed Lee Valley about storing fish glue in the refrigerator. This was the response- "Although we have no documentation stating this we believe this would help extend the life... The other fact is that this glue can go through numerous freeze and thaw cycles so storing it in the refrigerator is not going to cause any degradation."

_________________
Jeremy Douglas

The fish glue I used in the video and on and several guitars in the past few months is at least two years old. I store it in the fridge when not building.

Norlands page states its freeze-thaw stable. http://www.norlandprod.com/fishgel/hightack.html

Lee Valley, where I bought mine from also has this in its tech data. They have a good chart comparing many glues. Pot life, tack time, clamp time... It also gives a two year shelf life on the instruction page. I keep mine in the fridge and i assume that would extend the shelf life some.

I love the stuff for gluing up the box. Everything except bracing. There I like the quick gelling of hide glue allowing clean up right away. I've never tried bracing with fish glue, so i don't really know long it takes to get to the point where you can scrape out the squeeze out. I've always just let the stuff sit overnight and it is hard when I come back to it.

Hi Robbie, GREAT video !!! 1 question ! what are the drawback of using fishglue ?? you said it had all the benefits of hideglue, so why ain´t everyone using that ? is it ONLY cause of the time it takes to cure ?

Lars

Sorry Robbie, I think my question was answered on a post before mine. !!

A lot of people are using it. Some people prefer hide glue, others prefer fish glue and some use a combination of both glues on a guitar. The extra open time is nice when it comes to closing the back and top and doing bindings.

I'm just finishing a 000 size guitar, all built with fish glue. It is a bit messy and clean-up is
somewhat more difficult than with hide glue. For bracing clean-up, I use the white peanuts
that come in many shipping boxes, they are designed to absorb water and just about vanish
so they are eco-friendly. They also work great to run along the brace-top junction and absorb
excess glue. You can use them slightly damp or dry and they will absorb a lot of glue.
You can't use the green ones, they just crumble with pressure. I'm sure there are other ways of cleaning up excess but that one works for me. It does dry hard so anything you can do
while it's soft is to your advantage. It's a bit of a mess on the hands but washes off easily with
water. It seems to provide at least the same strength as hide glue and does respond well
to heat if removal of a component is necessary. I miss the immediate grab of hide glue but find that if I let the fish glue sit a bit before assembly, it does have reasonably good tack.

Best
Bruce

_________________
Bruce Herrmann
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."