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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:47 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Canada
Hi Todd,

What are some of the advantages of using this product?

I got some discoloration when I use titebond III with an exotic. Does the
Smith's offer little or no discoloration, or is it simply just a bonding
concern?

Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 1398
Location: United States
Titebond III?   No, no, no...

Smith's is great for oily woods.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

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Location: Canada
Rick, what would your glue of choice be for say Koa?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 1398
Location: United States
What joint?

For a back seam, I'd go with LMI white or hot hide glue. For laminating on a peghead overlay, I'd use Franklin's polyurethane. For laminating a neck, I'd use thickened WEST Epoxy.   For basic assembly, I'd either use HHG or LMI white.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:13 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

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Posts: 24
Location: Canada
Very Interesting.

So, if i used Titebond for these joints, i would have made a critical error?

Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
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Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I think Titebond Original is OK.  Titebond III is not a good instrument glue.  Too flexible and too much creep.  Hide glue is the choice of most around here, LMI white is also well thought of.  Epoxy for fingerboards to necks and some laminated headstok veneer layups.  Some use Fish Glue too.  Sort of a pick your poison, but pick from this group.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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First name: Mike
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Country: USA
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[QUOTE=klepsap] Hi Todd,

What are some of the advantages of using this product?

I got some discoloration when I use titebond III with an exotic. Does the
Smith's offer little or no discoloration, or is it simply just a bonding
concern?

Steve[/QUOTE]
Titebond 3 and other exterior wood glues never harden completly. they stay soft so they can expand and contract in climate changes. I would never use this where strength is necessary.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:23 pm 
Thanks for the tip Todd...



I've had excellent results using Smith's All Wood Glue for gluing woods
like cocobolo and African blackwood have been using it exclusively for
gluing fretboards. 



I've yet to try the Tropical Hardwood Epoxy.  I'm curious if
anyone has tried both and found one or the other more suitable for
instrument building.




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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:00 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Status: Professional
Polyurathane glues work well on woods like teak also.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:05 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:10 pm
Posts: 778
Location: Madison, WI
Is Smith's Tropical different than the All-Wood?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:11 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:10 pm
Posts: 778
Location: Madison, WI
I see that it isn't the same. Will the Tropical work as an all-purpose?...FB to neck or laminations, for example, or is that overkill?
I'm looking for one epoxy that will cover most of my typical applications.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:14 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:10 pm
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Location: Madison, WI
Yikes! 6 days for a full cure on the Tropical. Maybe I will stick to Smiths All-wood or West System.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Posts: 590
Location: United States
First name: Mike
City: Fishtown
Country: USA
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[QUOTE=ToddStock] I've used poly on oily woods and it works pretty well provided the glue line color is not an issue. The difference is in long term durability and exterior use. I'm fairly confident that Smiths will hold in the long term because I have ipe deck planks edge-glued with it that have been in the weather for three years. An earlier trial using PU let go after a few weeks in the rain (resulting in a time-consuming replacement job).

I don't think this is an issue for most builders, but to does illustrate some differences between the ability of various glues to hang onto the wood. I'll also note that some builders are butt-gluing classical and flamenco necks to bodies using just PU, and it works very well for that purpose.[/QUOTE]
Gorilla glue now makes a fast cure white drying poly now. I have some but haven't had a chance to use it yet. I would think it would be much better to use on certain woods.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:19 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:58 am
Posts: 347
Location: United Kingdom
Hi guys,

Sorry if this hijacing the thread a little but it is directly relevent.

I have a costumer that bought a three peice indian rosewood body blank off me for a telecaster.
He has had a problem with small hairline cracks after glueing with titebond liquid hide glue.

here is part of his origonal email to me.

"so will tell you my dilemma after jointing up the rosewood for the body of my telecaster with tightbond liquid hide glue and leaving it for a week you couldnt see the joints however after rubbing down to and applying a spirit based sealer coat some hairline cracks have appeared on the joint line. i am really peed off bout this!
i have been doing a bit of research on this and apparently one reason this could have happened is the buildup of the natural oil and tannic acid found in hardwoods such as rosewood. i have been in contact with the manufacturers of tightbond and they mention the use of acetone to neutralise the acid any thoughts! these cracks seem to be getting worse so the worse senario is for me to recut the joints and plane up again but by doing this it alters the contours of the of the body and the route positions, so i may have to look at getting a new center piece to previous dimentions 400mmx150/60x50."

Origonaly i recomended normal titebond but he decided to go with the hide glue which i would not recomend.
Do you think that the titebond liquid hide glue could be part of his problem.
My indian rosewood is old growth that has been very slowley kiln dried by us to a moisture content of 12%.

I recomended wicking cynoacrolate into these hairlines instead of resorting to a new center but the client has decided to go with a new center section.

The client has now decided to use titebond three on the new section i was just wondering if you guys could recomend anything more suitable
Personly i on;ly use titebond three for laminating purfling to my binding strips.
I have never used it for jointing so i cant offer objective advice on this.
Obviously i want to offer my client the best info i can and i will probably direct him to this thread so any and all info and con=mments will be happily recived.

Joel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:55 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 1398
Location: United States
Well, some people just won't listen or read or pay attention to those with a lot of experience. This post takes me back to my rant about folks being too lazy to do their proper homework.   This is what happens when you don't...guitars fall apart.    

Titebond III has few or no rightful places in a guitar. Franklin's liquid hide glue is only proper for paper labels. If you want to glue up rosewood solid body blanks, use the right epoxy. Smith's is great for this.   But also get this guy to study up.   We have all written reams on this subject.   All you need to know is right here on this site.   Look through the archives; read current posts; and if one doesn't want to do that then they deserve to have a guitar fall apart on them.


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