Official Luthiers Forum!

Well, it just seemed that you were taking it personally and I felt sorry for you. I know that deep down inside that tough exterior of yours is a sensitive heart of gold.

Things get heated on these forums, people take things personally when they shouldn't.

We should be willing to step back, take a deep breath, and move on.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

LOL, maybe it was just good old fashioned context clues. You quoted him, made a contextually connected response, then addressed him directly in the next paragraph.

Come on, guys. Some people have strong personalities. The strong personalities of some of the pros who used to post here drove other pros away. Ironically, Rick (repeatedly told in threads just like this he was coming off like a jerk) has always been EXTREMELY helpful to me. Todd has always been EXTREMELY helpful to me. I have a hard time weighing that against anything else and coming out thinking he's a jerk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Todd's a little sensitive!

You have to watch how you say things to him.

The part directed towards him was the part that started "Todd".....

BUT!!
I apologized

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Can't we all just get along?

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Somebody que the violins.
oh and repave the roads.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Simon says..."Just to clarify, my desire for an anonymous username is not that you all wouldn't know who I am. It is that my prospective customers couldn't google "Simon" and something to do with lutherie -- then find a post of mine where an idea of mine is criticized. In other words, the only reason I get "drawn" into these discussions is that I feel I have to give a defense for my ideas so that I come across as well-informed (which in all fairness to me, I am). Do any of you remember Scott van Linge? His ideas are a bit far out. If I was a potential customer of his, I know that his internet discussions would turn me away from his work just because I don't feel he was able to give a well-reasoned defense for his ideas".

This IS the reason some don't post in internet forums... I was trying to explain this, interjected into the cross talk.

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Ken

Ken, I believe this is a reason. A quite valid one of course. But it doesn't explain it all. It doesn't explain why they are leaving. Specially when they leave to hang out on a different forum.

Anyway.

Murray, I think I expressed my opinion the best way I could to answer your initial question. I believe I stated it pretty clearly, and I believe it is shared by a significant number of users (even if many of them didn't say it out loud, because they are gone anyway).

Signing out. (of this thread...)

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Not at all trying to be contentious here. Maintaining a marketing presence is likely another dimension of it. Not the whole of it, but certainly a reasonable dimension. We don't have a column of luthier sponsors and (awesome) build threads here where pros interact with and have a large exposure to the guitar-buying public.

If we were to cull what we've heard from some of professionals in this thread so far, it's looking like:

- Don't read into it
- Could be for any number of reasons
- Not adverse to conflict, but potential that my professional viability could be put at risk
- Some of them just aren't internet guys
- Personality conflict with another pro

I'll be leaving this food fight while simultaneously breaking my rule of never posting on LONG threads because they usually develop badly.

I fail to understand the "ratings" based on post count because there's hardly a relationship between the number and quality of postings a member may have. Some of us have neither time nor need to "defend" our "reasonable positions" or any of the other stuff that seems to drive the post count high.

Probably shouldn't have come to the Guitar Building section in the first place.

In the future, I'll drop into the Repair/Restoration section that I didn't even notice at the bottom of the page when I visited OLF after many years absence. . .

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Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET

Note...Rodney King frittered away all of his $3.7 million...after which he drowned in a swimming pool...on drugs. The obvious lesson is...Rodney didn't get along with himself.

If we acknowledge that, as human beings, contention is part of our nature then we ought to tolerate it in others, thicken our skins, and endeavor to work through each other's imperfections in order to attain a higher level of performance. High level luthrie attracts perfectionists. Although laudable, perfectionism is pure idealism. The strength of a man's character is partially due to his ability to constrain his ideals and learn to properly apply them toward his maturity.

In the context of his thread, I think the onus is is more on readers to tolerate the idiosyncrasies of writers than it is upon writers to guard against any conceivable slight. Of course, when a writer is being malicious it's obvious...but perhaps one or two of those high caliber luthiers have left because they haven't learned to adjust their expectations of people...and can't tolerate their imperfection. I don't know about all of them but I certainly perceived this to be true of some of them.

I will say that forcing other people to walk on eggshells around you isn't at all socially warm. The better course is to treat the written word as a less than perfect form of communication, indeed if there is ANY perfect form at all. Tolerance of imperfection should lead one to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to interpreting their intentions.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Frank, thanks for stopping by. Hope to see you around.

Stuart, I totally agree with you about being tolerant and giving the benefit of the doubt when it's the first, second, third, maybe even tenth time. But when someone gets this same feedback from dozens of people over a span of many years and when it's obviously detrimental to the community, then it's reasonable to lose patience. Not that I expect it to change. Like a lot of others, I just mostly stay away.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

...absolutely your prerogative, Kent.

Nevertheless, I'm certain no forum exists that fully embraces Mr. King's social lament, given that we are all non-transcendent humans.

Which forums do you prefer?

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Speak for yourself (where's the halo emoticon?)



I don't spend a tremendous amount of time on any forums anymore but when I do, I usually go to the AGF. I don't blame Lance for not wanting to babysit. I wouldn't wish that job on anyone. But I do think more active moderators help set a tone, enhance a community, and help make up for the fact that none of us are perfect communicators.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

What boggles my mind is how anyone of us have time for this debate. Surely we could all be cutting braces, gluing something or even sweeping the floor?

It really does surprise me what has transpired here. One doesn't have to look beyond this post to see why people leave here, Pro, Amateur or Newbie.

Guitar building doesn't need to be this difficult.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Where I'm anxiously awaiting the Craftsman thread.

Sorry Tony, I beat you to it!

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Old growth, shmold growth!

This thread is just like Hitler.

@ Frank Ford...thank you.

@ Zlurgh...amen.

@ Shirley, me glads you like me humour...whishes me could reciprocate.


Here goes....

To all the dearly departed pros and the mean nasty sharp tongued masters of sarcasm of dis here forum.

?admas some what humerous, mind bent out a shape, don't know Jack $hit School of Looferism, incessantly babbling forth profundities of him loofric wiz~dum, lampooing your incosistencies, foibles, grammatical and logical errors, me sorry...me din't mean to be driveing all you pros to taken the last train to the coast, and start a new, by invite only forum, with no publicly listed ULR. (Sorry you sharped tonguers, you ain't in it.)

But...hey, can you blame them. (don't bother, rhetorical question)

So...
Don't be liken me "faux gonzo rustic hillbilly approach"...
Don't like me babblings.... don't be readin me words.
Don't like me builds...don't be looken at me threads ... which by the way makes me wonder...
how comes me gotts really, like really really high view numbers on me build threads? Hmmm? (another rhetorical )

Ya, maybe one day the avatar know as Padma will drop him nom de plume and reveal him secret identity. But not today ...so don't go be holdin yer breath.

Right!


blesings
?adma


@ Flipo...me thinks you just made it with Glenn seconding.





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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I'm sure this'll do it....

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I now know exactly what Gregory Peck must have experienced in "The Omen" ...(or was it "Rosemary's Baby" ?) ...whatever ...

As a beginner guitar builder, i come to this forum for several reasons, the first two would be advice and inspiration. When I am trying to figure out how to do something, anyone who has done it successfully can offer meaningful advice. When the pros speak, sometimes I get good ideas i can use, other times they are talking way beyond my capabilities. Which in its own way is inspirational, because it shows me there is more to this that can be learned down the road.

But threads like this, that turn into a who said what and why and was he mad i don't know but should he be sort of thing, I rarely read them. Surprised I've actually made it this far in this one.

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Gregory Peck played the guitar but not as well as I drive.

But while I'm at it, here's my take on the Original Question. and my answer applies to pretty much every type of forum. And it is simply this: some people like to, others don't. And it has nothing to do with skill, reputation, etc.

I know several excellent mechanics who don't belong to car restoration forums. They willingly help others and offer wonderful advice, but choose not to by that method. Their call. They have plenty to do, and don't see a need to spend time and effort on them. Doesn't make them better or worse, just with a differently placed set of priorities.

Personally, I don't have an account on Facebook. I see no need for it, though many people look at me funny and ask why not.

Besides, where else could I go to hear Padma rant?

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Well spider...

http://www.luthierforum.com

It ain't an easy form to get membership on...but you will find professionals who besides being mods, all practice a code of squeaky clean, family
nice nice form of shared informative communication. I, me, Padma happens to be one of them mods with a Zero tolerance for egotistical,
holier than thou art, unkind, Jack $hit sarcastic know~it~all attitude posts.

yes is sad...but the shepple and less advance life forms still thrive on that B.S. Oh well.


check it out.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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The law is sometimes invoked, as a rule, to mark the end of a discussion when a Nazi analogy is made, with the writer who made the analogy being considered to have lost the argument.
.....................................................~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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