Official Luthiers Forum!

Sorry to be slow, Mike, but I'm not getting what you are saying. I understand that you intend to use the PolyWhey. I also understand that you will seal with shellac. What I'm not getting is what you were saying about the Stew-Mac clear sealer. Is that the same as the "clear filler" you refer to in the sentence: "Hence the clear filler"? Is this a pore filler and do you still intend to use it? Or, when you said: "Even if I have to take more time and need to add more coats" it that because you don't intend to use any pore filler but will do enough coats with the PolyWhey that the pores will be filled that way? Or, when you say you like "just a enhancement of the natural wood grain" do you mean that you don't intend to pore fill and like the look of pores showing in the finish.

Again, apologies for not understanding your first reply. Why I am interested is, if you are not using a pore filler and are just adding extra coats of the PolyWhey, I'd like to know how that is working out for you, i.e. how many coats of the PolyWhey it takes to fill pores in, say, rosewood.

Thanks,
Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

My understanding is that Mike plans to seal with several coats of shellac then he will let the PolyWhey fill the pores even it he has to spray more coats. I have done that with EM6000 but PolyWhey builds much more rapidly so it might be a reasonable thing to do.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm thinking I would like to try this over a french polish job that I'm not happy with. Can I level sand the french polish and then brush or use the wipe on PolyWhey over it. It's been a couple of months since I did the french polish. Questions:
1) can I put PolyWhey over French polish?
2) Should I level sand the french polish wet or dry? Wet with oil, water, or ? And what grit?
Thanks, Wendy

Another interesting test would be to bounce a little steam off a piece that has been finished and allowed to cure, just to see how it might react to a neck reset.

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George :-)

The only issue I can think of with pore filling using the PolyWhey would be shrinkage. As Pat and I have seen, the finish does shrink. If I were going to pore fill with it I would want to wait about 3 weeks or maybe longer before final leveling to be sure that the finish won't shrink after I've polished it.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I like a small pore look on my guitars.
They look like their made from wood-not dipped in plastic.

I will use this product for for pore filling.
I will always seal the bare wood with shellac.

Mc

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Mike Collins

Mike,
Thanks again for bringing this up and for staying involved in the discussion. This
looks to be a real step forward in waterbased, low voc finishes.

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Gene

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain

First time I've read someone echo my feeling re:guitar finishes.

I'll give this a try next go round.

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Thank You and Best To All

Hello Everybody,
I'm Larry Duane I work for Vermont Natural Coatings. I have used our PolyWhey coatings in many different settings and substrates. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. I have been a life long wood worker. I even logged and milled Koa on the big Island. So let me know. I will answer as a woodworker not a company mouthpiece.
Thanks for your interest,
Larry

Thanks for chiming in Larry... I have used Em 6000 over shellac, right over zpoxy and over their em 1000 all with good results, what do you recommend as a sealer, after using z poxy as a pore filler??? or can it be sprayed right over the z poxy,,,this thread has convinced me to try the finish...

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MK5acoustics.com

Hi Larry, and welcome. I've got an area on a recently finished guitar (PolyWhey furniture gloss over shellac sealer) about 1.5" x 1.5" that I need to repair. Can I just brush on more PolyWhey after I sand it down then level and polish as usual? Obvious questions r.e. burn in capability and witness lines.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I have not used the zpoxy. That being said I like to test PolyWhey on a sample for adhesion. After about and hour dry time a simple cross hatch test will tell you if it's compatible. It has excellent adhesion to most other coatings.
Dewaxed shellac works well as a sealer for the PolyWhey products.
Thanks Larry

It'll probably stick to the shellac, most things do. But,if you're talking about going on a fully built french polish finish, I wouldn't. I'm far from a finishing expert but I think that you generally want to avoid putting a harder finish over a softer one.
If I were doing it I'd either sand off the bulk of the body of the finish (probably hard to do evenly, without sand throughs) or just go back to bare wood and do a couple of seal coats with shellac before applying the polywhey.

Hi Steve,
The PolyWhey will adhere to itself. As to the witness lines. Try a spot on a sample. But in the work I have done it has not been a problem. But I am not a luthier.
Thanks for your interest,
Larry

I used Zpoxy on my latest but sealed with 2 coats of blonde shellac before spraying the PolyWhey. I've had adhesion issues with EM6000 on bare wood but have not tried directly on Zpoxy.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Larry;
it's great you started posting here!
I love your products.
One thing -french polish usually involves a use of a oil
lubricant.
So finishes will probably(sp) NOT adhere to that.

I've used it over dewaxed shellac with NO problems.

Thanks for your input sir!
Mike

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Mike Collins

LarryD,
I am not set up to spray any finish, as such, I have pretty much stuck with French Polish. The non-toxic nature and non-offensive smell has served me well. I am very much interested in experimenting with you product as a brushed on (and subsequently leveled) finish. What type of brush (or other) is best to use with this product? I know you can thin with distilled water but there is also the wiping formulation. Is the later just diluted product? Which would be better for my goals?

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Larry,
Without divulging proprietary information would you be able to run down the differences between the PolyWhey products, specifically the floor, furniture and wipe-on versions? Is one product more durable than the other, i.e. a different resin ratio? What we as luthiers are looking for is hardness, clarity, durability, ease of application. Probably 90% of luthiers would prefer the gloss version. Is there one gloss version of your products that would best fit the listed requirements?

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Bryan, they have recently come out with a wipe-on product that might work for you. I think Colin tested it and had positive comments. I should be getting some soon that I am going to test too.

edit: sorry, should have said Mike C.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I've already used it!
It works great & is self leveling.
Mc

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Mike Collins

Mike, did you wipe on or brush on? Should I buy an expensive brush as if I were using an oil varnish or can I get away with one of those foam things (somewhere in between)?

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

The Wipe On product would be best. It is a specialized formula designed just for the user who doesn't have the capacity to spray but still wants a high end look.
Thanks for your interest,
Larry

I called and have some of this product on the way. They mentioned that the wipe-on finish which is more clear could be sprayed.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Larry D,

Thanks for joining the forum to give us feedback on this product.

In the past, a lot of folks have had problems with water based lacquer finishes due to the bluish tint the acrylic adds to the finish which is more apparent when used over darker woods. I've read the PolyWhey is a blend of both Acylic and Urethane. Without giving out any proprietary info, is it possible we could find out how much acrylic is used so we would have an idea how much of a problem we might have with the blue cast issue? Is there a difference in the ratio of acrylic to urethane between the furniture product and the wipe-on product?

Thanks.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Has anybody got som pics of a dark wood guitar finsihed in gloss???

Mike