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 Post subject: Re: Fret Leveling
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:54 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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kencierp wrote:
While the drawings are certainly appreciated -- it seems the visual is causing some confusion. The variance in plane in reality is minute/tiny hardly noticeable (maybe not even noticeable without a straight edge). I believe the fall off/fall away concept -- is a newer construction tweak element, I don't do it, but I am certain there is no similarity to the dreaded 14th fret hump that is the result of an improperly made neck joint.


Correct on all points Ken. We can see the fall-away visually when sighting down the edges of the board when it's in the neighborhood of .010 - .015". With less it's harder to see visually.

We use pencil marks on the board to see the fall-away and we want it starting right around the 12th. For fret crowns we use marker ink like bluing for machinists.


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 Post subject: Re: Fret Leveling
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:58 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Alex Kleon wrote:
James Orr wrote:
Question. The first pic looks like an improper neck angle. Would this not be the cause of the hump?

Question number two. How does fall-away prevent the hump? Or are they not related? I thought the purpose of fall-away was to give the string more room to oscillate.


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The way I read the pictures, you are correct, James, in that the first picture shows the hump being caused by improper neck angle. It looks like the rim/top angle is at 90deg. and the neck/heel angle is at the 90+deg required to get the correct string path.
I believe that picture two shows the correct compementary angle that gives the correct string path, and also allows the fretboard to remain flat from nut to sound hole. The fall-away is then shaped into the higher frets. So no, fall-away does not prevent the hump. Correct neck/body geometry prevents the hump, and in the fall-away, as you said, allows the strings room to oscillate.
Hopefully if I have it wrong, someone can correct me.

Alex


Here is another way to look at it that may help. If we imagine that there is no relief represented in the drawing we are left with two ever so slightly different fret planes. The first is the 1st through the 12th and then the second plane is the 12th through the last. The second plane is the fall-away. In this example there is no hump and only two planes.

With the relief represented in the drawing it can look a bit like a hump but if you measured the action in every fret position as the frets move toward the body the action always get's a tad higher, no hump.

Make sense?


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 Post subject: Re: Fret Leveling
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:59 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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PeterF wrote:
Barry Daniels wrote:
On the diagram, I think the point of highest action is actually at the end of the fretboard, not the 14th fret.

Oops yeah you're right!

Mike O'Melia wrote:
In the above diagram, I aim for the bottom picture. Is there something wrong with that? I don't like the look of the top one. I've had builds do that. I invested a lot of time effort and money achieving the lower image. I'm talking about the fretboard, not the strings.

Both pictures are exactly the same, but the first one has the angles exaggerated a lot. I think the point Hesh and others were trying to make is that the fallaway is a sharp change in the fret plane, not a bump. But still only a tiny amount, not like on the first picture.


Exactly right Peter and thanks again for the excellent drawings!!


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