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Guys, I've got a problem. Apparently, my guitars all learned that their fingerboards were illiegal and now all I can play is "Jailhouse Rock." I don't even really like that song. I mean, it's ok . . .

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Adam

Hi Mike Hope all is well.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
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The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
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I think I might try building some different colored BONDO guitars in 2012.....with reinforced necks of course....

Kent

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John Ressler's OSB guitars are looking better and better...

http://www.resslerguitars.com/custom-guitars-gallery.htm

My next build is going to a guy in France. Am I puzzled? Darn right I am.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

I just read through this whole post. Wow! I just think somebody needs to look at the constitutionality of the government restricting free trade of their citizens in any manor. I'm fairly sure that the founding fathers would pick up a musket against the system we now have in place....

If I'm understanding this correctly, the legal action against Gibson came about because India misclassified the blanks. If this is the issue, then does this not leave every citizen of the US open as a target of prosecution, due to the acts of a foreign government? How did we get here?

That being said, It seems the issue they have a problem with is the fact that a FB blank is (in their eyes) a sawn piece of wood that could be used for anything, and not identifiable as a guitar part specifically. So would the solution not be to put one fret dot clear on the end of the face, in a cut-off zone, or something similar? Wouldn't this then be unmistakably a guitar part?

Um.. you might not have noticed, but our beloved representatives don't really give a rip about the constitution any more...

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Jim Hansen

It's never about free trade, it's always about control.

Why do you think you need to get a visa to live in work in other countries (and those visas are often very hard to get)?

Why do you think you have to pay duties when importing stuff?

Why are there even things like CITES?

I am not saying that the absence of the above is necessarily good, but what I am saying is the above things are government imposed barrier to free trade.

If there are no government imposed barriers at all, then the end result will be companies becoming larger and larger until a monopoly is formed, which was why government imposed barriers (like Anti trust laws) are formed in the first place. I think the real issue is centralized power which is what we're dealing with.

I believe we all know that real power should only be wielded by people who will use it responsibly, but history has shown that hasn't been the case. If anything, there are more instances of abuse of power than people who use them responsibly, hence the American constitutional republic system was created in order to address these issues. They knew that one man can't ever use their power responsibly so they created the system. However, they also believed that a government is necessary for the well being of all, because without a government, there would be anarchy and eventually, a dictator will take over and they will have fought for nothing. The period from the Civil War to the Great Depression has taught them that absolute free trade (which is actually what the Rockefellers et. al. favored) is not the best solution either.

I am sure you all agree that some form of control is needed, otherwise plant or animal species will go extinct due to over-harvesting. I really think this is all a ruse to get at Gibson, perhaps they pissed someone at the government off. However the problem is if they had to change or interpret the law to get at one organization, it sets a dangerous precedent because future generations will also follow that law.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Absolute Power Corrupts Absoloutely

Article I, Section 8, United States Constitution---interstate commerce regulation--international trade, duties. Sections 9 and 10 further delineate matters of interstate and international transactions. Section 8 is, however, the core of the authority.

David is now famous.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/05/after-gibson-raid-other-guitar-makers-at-risk-breaking-law/?test=latestnews

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Bob, my homework says your 10mm sanded boards will still be illegal. The code is defined by something requiring little or no further modification. Getting rid of the saw and planer marks doesn't get you around that. -- db

Personally I feel this whole issue is being overblown. Instead of wringing our hands in anguish, We should find a wood scientist genius , who can find an attractive replacement for EIR rosewood an ebony wood for Fingerboards , and then we will not be afoul of the law .There are approximately 55,000 different trees in the world, someone will eventually find an acceptable alternative.

No offense, Ernie, but that's ridiculous. The wood from India is sustainably grown already and has been since the late 1960's. We need to get either India to modify their export regulations or get the US to acknowledge India's little quirk.

Well said David!

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David, thanks for your replies at the Huffington Post article site.

It seems very reasonable to me to investigate alternatives:
- That is within every luthier's direct domain of control.
- We don't know how long it will take to sort out the import/export issues.
- It's not an "either-or": write your congressperson, etc., but also have an alternative plan.

Also, I was curious about suppliers of EIR outside of India. I know it's grown elsewhere, but I don't know about quality, politics, sustainability, etc.

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David Malicky

Well there certainly are alternatives, for example Gidgee from dry areas of Australia which I think makes btter fingerboards than Ebony because it is harder and doesn't wear so fast. There are other Australian Acacia species that are also suitable. There is probably enough Gidgee, Brigalow etc cut down and burned every year by farmers to supply the entire world music instrument market so it is not rare, certainly not endangered, and would not be difficult to harvest sustainably. The problem is, the wood is not black, it is a dark reddish brown, and is difficult to get because the market is pretty much constrained to Australia so is too small to run a viable supply business. These native Acacia trees are considered weeds in parts of Queensland so the potential is there. All that is needed is the demand to create a big enough market.

However, I agree with David. It is ridulous to have to find alternatives. The situation in India is far better than many other countries so picking on India is stupid. The situation with Indian fingerboard blanks in the US has nothing to do with conservation of trees, it is a legal issue.

Unfortunately, this is also true about most exotics at the smoldering margins of the Amazon rainforest....including many CITES-listed species. As long as South American governments continue to turn a blind eye to it, one can actually make a legitimate argument that poaching that wood (rather than burning it) actually reduces the carbon footprint of the host country.


Sounds like a business niche to me!

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

This whole issue all boils down to regulation and politics. The economy of the US is going down the crappers, like not having a job in just about any sectors, but many small businesses (not limited to guitar building) are hard hit due to regulation.

Hell, Germany is known as a country that is highly bureaucratic but they don't do stuff like what the US is doing now.

This impending economic doom and gloom is a self fulfilling prophecy.

With big businesses cutting a huge number of jobs (while making record profit), most jobs being given by small or medium sized businesses, even those businesses are being squeezed out of existence because of regulations and competition from big businesses. One does wonder if this was all planned by big businesses in order to bring everyone under their control, with no regards to the general economic condition of the environment...

One could say if everyone's poor, then they can't afford to buy your stuff but when you got so much power that it no longer matters, then they'll do what they want to get power.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I agree with David that it's a bit ludicrous to have to be looking for alternatives when there is no real problem with the sustainabilty of the existing wood. On the other hand, it certainly makes sense to have alternatives in mind, if only to get through these little 'stupid storms' that seem to come up every now and then (I think it was Freeman Dyson who said the hydrogen and stupidity are the two most common things in the universe).

I started doing a lot more work with 'local' woods a few years ago, when I realized that I couldn't take my best 'show' guitar to the Montreal Festival because it's made of Brazilian rosewood (which I bought in 1974, but try to _prove_ that). I've been making backs and sides out of things like Black locust (a decent substitute for IRW), cherry and walnut (more or less like soft maple), oak (not so far from IRW either) and Osage orange (a drop-in replacement for BRW soundwise). Butternut (sadly available due to a blight; better luck next time APHIS) is a good replacement for South American cedar for necks, and you can also use walnut and cherry. I've been using persimmon (the North American ebony) for fingerboards; although there are other species that might be better I haven't seen sources for them. Hornbeam works well too. Both of these need to be dyed somehow, as they are white or gray. In the end ebony is going to be the most difficult one to find a substitute for, IMO, just because everything else shows the dirt!

It's been nice being under the radar, but those days seem to be over. Maybe if we'd been a bit more conspicuous they'd have taken our situation into consideration before passing the amendment.

here are some interesting pro-Lacey comments from Bob Taylor

http://www.forestlegality.org/media-res ... tion-bob-t


-jd

So, Gibson cant possibly be the only large maker in the US using Indian ebony for FBs, as they (India) seem to be one of the largest suppliers .. anyone know where Martin, Taylor, Fender, Collings, Santa Cruz, Breedlove etc. are getting their ebony FBs from ???

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Pressure dyed Hornbeam, Oak and Beech? should be good options for fingerboards. You really need to get the board very close to finished dimensions and then somehow get it pressure dyed. That would allow for a little bit of loss if you are final sanding the Neck/Fretboard and any wear over the years.
Some Vinegar, a bit of rust, the Oak and. . . a seriously huge pressure cooker!!

"Lacey addresses this by simply making it a law, that as a US business or citizen we must import only wood that was obtained legally in its country of origin.

I agree that that is an ambitious idea; for our law keepers to enforce the laws of foreign nations. But drastic times need drastic measures and other means have not worked. The volunteer program hasn’t stopped illegal logging! Putting the rules on the buyer is the most efficient way to control the trade of illegal logging, and this is where Lacey is effective. It causes each user of wood to know and monitor their own imports. I don’t have to concern myself with the laws of countries where I don’t buy wood; only those where I do. It’s not that hard. In this way the U.S. Government gets me to work for them for free. If I were in charge of fixing the problem, I’d come up with the same solution. Ask yourself if you have a better idea. You probably don’t."


I wonder how Taylor buys their fretboards.

Sorry to go off topic but. . . Alan, I have been pondering butternut for necks for awhile now but worry that it wouldn't be stiff enough. Are you saying it is a viable option for SS necks?

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I don't know where else to ask this, so I'll ask here. Say a guy bought some Brazilian rosewood at the local hardwood store ( Macbeath, if it makes a difference ) around the mid 1990's and has been using it for ukulele and guitar bridges. Then his neighbor sees one of his ukes and wants to buy it, or better yet, trade for a couple chickens and a goat. Can he sell it or trade it (locally) if he doesn't have a paper trail on the rosewood?

Reading Chuck's GAL article, I'd think maybe he could. Reading some of the other stuff, I'd think maybe he can't. Is there any ' real' answer?

Steve