Official Luthiers Forum!

So do you think that glueing the back under tension is going to do something? I think there is something to glueing things together in molds, under clamp pressures; How doe's wood respond tonelly under stress vs. settled? I bend my sides by hand, and I let the wood tell me where it wants to go. Binding tells YOU where it wants to break.LOL I think theres some sort of energy "NRG" built up in the making that has something to do with tone. Padma, I love all the curves and the style.

_________________
Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Well Jo, thank you for this post,

Now regarding tensioning plates and braces.

Violin family bass bars are often installed with some spring in them which puts tension into the plate...supposedly this adds power to the voice.

In time this spring will weaken and so will the voice... the plate is removed, (very easy for violins) and a new bass bar installed.

I am aware that in time 5 to 10 years, the response of this back may diminish some what. So it gonna be glued down with HHG. I may just recarve it from a thicker plate, but that means me gotta shovel snow to get down to some of me thick cedar billets and then sledge hammer em to break em loose...naw.

Or I might just make a quick jig, tension it up and cook her in the oven till she starts to relax and to see thing my way. And even if her voice does weaken over time, me not too concerned about it.

Non the less this build gonna be going around the planet, over her shoulder with a smile and an AMX card and will probably be retired in about 5 years after all that road use.

Personally me see it as another prototype that me probably gonna build several variations of. Only I will pay attention to what thicknesses of stock I have readily available inside the shop next time.

However since you took us to NRG "build up" ... me not too concerned about what they say regarding plates under tension.

Now Re: NRG "build up"

Me believe in talking to/with the consciousness of the wood, telling her just what she suppose to transmorph into and perform like. Wood is matter and matter is made up of energy and energy displays the phenomena known as consciousness and consciousness has the ability to receive a stimulus and respond there to it.
Simply put, our intent while tooling the wood is transferred to the wood.

Thats why me say "Watch your thoughts when building."

Thats why me not concerned about what "they" say ( you know them) regarding plates under tension.

Thats why me say "Its the luthier, not the wood" although wood helps.

And thats a lotta thats!


Blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Maybe thats why when your a little kid, and your grandpa makes something out of wood for you, and it can be anything, it's the best thing ever because he made it with love. And that love NRG transfers through it.

_________________
Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Yo, Padma,
I always enjoy your building projects. I've been watching this one with interest. I've gotta say I am real glad you added photo documentation of yourself going "tribal" over the tap tone of that plate.
You are a man who enjoys his work!

Patrick

Quote: "Overextended guitar player buzzard's neck"

Padma, bud, you are a hoot!

Love your shop/house! How bout a photo tour sometime?!

.

Thank you Haans...

So you wanna see a photo shoot of Padma-pa House...hmmm...maybe. Not today thought.


Cutting out the 2 part F holes.






Routing out the truss rod slot.




Normally the bracing would be done now but because the profiling will change with the flexing down and gluing of the top it was left till after the clamps came off.






The bracing has been scribed, cut, fitted and installed. Unfortunately most of the pics of this process fell off the truck. Oh well. but here you can see me using carbon paper to mark were the braces need to have a talking to.








Yes the bracing is a bit thick but then this is cedar which was tooled down to about 1/8 in the recurve area and 3/8's under the bridge. So ...beefier bracing.

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

You dudes...

Me convinced me now know more than me use to, trouble is me be forgetting it faster n me learning it....now what? :think:


Before me close her up in the morning, me paint the braces around the F holes dark brown or black and stick this label on the inside of the back plate.
Ya, It ain't a fancy smancy De~signed label with a logo...but it does get the message across don't ya think. Of course it ain't as big as it appears here, actually some peoples need a magnifying glass to reads it.




Ok here is the pic with the 8 braces...This style of F holes me got from Steve Stevens a while back...modified them to make me even happier and started using it as me signature and found out that they needs back braces to be happy especially if me keep takeing the recurves down to less than 3/16. But then me never really played it safe in me life...well...only when it comes to building houses schools and banks which me don't be doin no more...especially banks!






Ya, she may be ugly on the inside...just like some people around here, but look at all that wood...thick braces, double lined re enforced ribs, heavy duty kurfed lining...with cedar top thats only .110 in the recurves and .180 max under the bridge. Same for the back plate....Gee you would think this is a travel guitar thats really meant to go travelin ...well ummm ya ~ It is.

As daddy use to say...in his Bo-honk accent "build strong ...no fall part!"

Yup...

Strong like bull
Light like feather
Sweet like bird
Dumb like street car.

Dudes you should here the tap tones on these plates.

Tomorrow the back is gonna be on. Then me really know much better she what she gonna sound like.


blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Yo, Padma,
First things first: I like that comment about knowing more than you used to know, but forgetting faster than you are learning. It's funny, and it's insightful, too. It's a phenomenon that is probably happening to all of us.

Okay, next, about those braces: I fully understand those skinny little braces between the halves of your f-holes, but I've got a hunch those other braces at either end the f-holes aren't necessary. Of course, they probably don't hurt anything, either. Furthermore, as this is your instrument and not mine, I think you should do it any way you want to do it. I am just commenting here, and...you know...free advice is always exactly what you pay for it. So don't pay too much attention to my free advice.

I like your instruments, your experimental and artistic design sensibility, and most of all I like your sense of humor about yourself!

Patrick

Ya well Partick...experience has tought me that for this style of "F" holes, braces are absolutely necessary especially when taken down to .110 or the bridge between the two halves cracks or the wings break off. This situation is a trade of off looks for safe design function...what can me say ...me ego is going for the looks and so me brace to compensate.


blessings

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

The bridge is gonna be right between the middle of the F-holes so I can understand the thicker braces on the f-holes closest to the larger top brace(s). With a thinner top area, it should keep the lines together. Most of the top stess should be gone after that brace I would think.

_________________
Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Padma, I like what u said about learning and forgetting, and your writing/spelling "style".
Kinda makes you slow down to read you posts, and think just that bit more, rather than "scan" read, over the top..
Blessings accepted,
Thanks, and nice build btw, look forward to seeing more.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

That's funny. My Dad use to just say" Not to good for smart but plenty good for strong" in the best Bohunk accent!



No truer words have been spoken! She's looking good my friend. Thanks for taking the time to keep us abreast.

The Best,
Danny

Hey Jason,
Seems like da Padma's way of thinking and building is right in line with the Larson Brothers. They built many of their Mandos "Under Tension".

The Larsons termed this type of construction “built under tension,” and it gave their guitars, a “focused tone" according to some individuals.

Good job Mr. P

Here's more reading on the Brothers instruments. You can also read about it in the book, "The Larsons' Creations" by Robert Carl Hartman.

http://www.pinestrawmag.com/news/2010/a ... -brothers/

http://larsonbrothersguitarregistry.com/?page_id=13

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

Hey Padma, Thanks for documenting this. It is really cool seeing a different perspective on building than the norm of just copying martins and gibsons. Do you have a website?

Yo Oval,

Glad you like it...

Ummm sorry ...no web site...maybe on day.

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

.
Signed the plates , glued in the sticker, wrapped her up and put her to sleep for the night

Maybe I start the banding in the morning or maybe me work on the Easter Lily and get her closed up too. Ya better do that and then me can band both at the same time.




Yup inner tube..but ya gotta really appreciate were the stuff comes form.

Like BIG Truck tires 18 wheeler jobs is supper thick strong rubber
15 or 16 inch tire tubes good solid rubber
12 or 13 inch is thinner again and more stretchy
and bicycle inner tube is both thin and much more stretchy

Depends on what me doing as to what me use.


blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

.

Rabbiting for the Banding


well me first rough cut the rabbit with this old Black and Decker held in the Recorder.












Then used this little attachment on the Drememl to clean up the rabbit.




Here you can see some home made attachments that do the same thing but fit on the dremels pencil extension.....much easier to control




Me then made a sanding block.....






To clean up the rabbit.





Banding


Ok here we start the banding...

Was suppose to be using Paduke...but me was not having any success in bending it so moved over to Sirari, a very hard South American wood that is easy to bend and kinda pinkish in colour.

Here you can see the bent sirari and white holly from Jesse Burge, and the assortment of tools needed for this operation.











He be nice pic of me with a loop for too be eyeballing the edge of the chisel that is really a scraper for cleaning out the glue after installing the holly. (Actualuty me using me X Ray Heat Vision to Cosmically re temper the edge. But please, don't go and be tellin no body, you know what they do to people like me!)







Ya, her tap tone is sounding gooder.





Will post again when the Sirari has been installed.


blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Yo, Padma,
Quite a nifty little curved sanding block you used to clean up those binding channels. I really like the little wedges for securing the sand paper strips. Wish I had thought of that. Well....like so many things in life, it seems very obvious once someone else points it out to me......

Patrick

.

Here be pic of the rejects...there were more but kindling was needed for to start the stove.





Glued in the heal block of coco with some sap edge, or maybe it's a chunk of Black African...same difference. Me think this piece came from Ron.





Try out fit and fidget.








Here is the finished banding before the clean up starts.






Here you can see the scallops in the ribs. This lets me know how much me can sculpt away from the banding and the ribs. Is about 32nd of meat left and its break through to the lining. Don't wanna be doing that.





Rough sculpting of the ribs on the belt sanders wheelie. Really gotta keep the box moving or me could cut through to the lining. Did me mention me don't wanna be doing that. No! Then its on to final shaping with a bastard and scrapers.





Scraping her down. You can now really start to see the rounding over of the ribs and get
a feel for how the instrument gonna feel all rounded over, full and voluptuous.






Rough carving of a lotus petal into the heal block.








Here she be all sculpted, scraped and ready for sanding.





Will be doing the head stock cover and making the wedge shaped, cantilevered fret board tomorrow.


Blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Ooh, looking very nice. I love the rounded edges. Always bothers me when people leave them all squared off. Arm starts to hurt just imagining the edge digging in.

Heel cap is excellent as well, especially with carving. Looks like blackwood to me.

Hope you can get us some sound clips of this baby before she goes off on her world tour

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

.

Glued on the fret baord, and headstock with holly and sirari. Black wood cover plate and nut. Zerro fret added after me level the other frets.





Shaping the neck...10~ 15 min max.




Here she be ready for sanding. Nice day....may sit on porch and sand her down. Might even get a flash coat or two on today.




Heres a shot down the neck showing the twist in what appears to be the neck but in reality its in the body. The instrument has been propped up on one side to simulate the weight of the players right fore are which would then twist the body the 15 degrees seen in this photo.



Wanna get her singing by the full moon.



blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Whatchu finish



wit?
Polyurethane, french polish, nitro, shellac, varnish, bug puke, plant squat, hmmm?

Secret recipe made from the oil of the Ayahuasca vine.

blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

LOL.....Filippo, me thinks our Padmer be spoken aboot da "Los Secretos del Shamanism". Not of them secrets we all know in lutherie. The oils of this vine when boiled or however they're prepared is used to see far into the future amongst other things.

Padma, I want you to know I'm just trying to get a smile here and there. I love that you love to share your art and I really enjoy eyeballing it.

Hutch

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins