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Barry pretty much covered what I have been doing Haans, I work the thinned mix in a circular motion using a rag to make sure I get the fill into the pores. I finish off leaving a cross grain pattern moderately proud of the wood surface and I find the visual indication this provides later when dry helps even out the over all sanding. All in all it is a very quick and easy process and best of all, I have not had any sink back whatsoever with the product....touch wood

I think Barry's comment regarding the possible bleaching effect that a predominantly alkaline finish can have on this filler is worth looking at very closely. I do not know that the Behlen's vinyl sealer you have applying over Timbermate is in fact an overly alkaline product and is therefore responsible for the problems you have encountered, but I think for the sake of this discussion, we need to clarify that now.

I also think Jim's advice re the lamp black is worth following up. I will be trialing something similar when I have the chance over the next few days and will post results here. For now, as I don't think they even sell their product here in Australia, it would be good if you could contact Behlen and find out the PH of their vinyl sealer...failing that, maybe trialing a wash coat of shellac to act as a barrier before proceeding with the rest of your finish regime may help, but then what is the PH of shellac?? I have no access to a PH meter so cannot test to see for myself. It would be great if someone else on this forum who has the PH numbers at hand could give us some insight.

Cheers

Kim

Jim, sorry, I missed your post...twice. Isn't lamp black an oil based pigment? I've got some black tempra powder that I use for inlay that I might try also.
Looks like it's a matter of buying several bottles and mixing it all together, adding something to make it black and re-packaging it.

Haans, Another name for lamp black is carbon black. It's basically soot and is very black, it's a very fine powder and not suspended in any kind of base. You can purchase small jars of it, maybe a good artist supply store and I know LMI has it also. It's a pretty standard pigment.

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Thanks Jim, if the tempra doesn't work I'll try it on the new oak parlor.

I wanted to bring this thread back up to the top as I want to switch porefiller and have been thinking about the Timbermate. Have folks worked out the color issue? Jim seems to be the only one.

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Mix about 100g of the filler with about 10ml of transtint, should provide enough pigment. Add about 25g of warm water. to thin.

Well after a bunch of reading I went and got some timbermate pore filler and some die to tint it.

I used the tint base, black airbrush die, burnt umber airbrush die and a bit of ebony dust.

I mixed up the filler to a creamy consistency, added the die's a drop or two at at time till I got the color I was after, well almost. I would have liked to have had a darker brown to start with, but this is acceptable to me. I added the ebony dust just to see if it would get a bit darker and it did.

As you can see from the picture, the pores were filled and the color of the filler was lighter than the rosewood (right hand side) which was not acceptable. However on the left side is one quick wipe with shellac which wet the filler and we'll see if it stays that way once the shellac is cured.

Looks promising

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Lampblack is probably not the best choice to get Timbermate more black. It is difficult to get lampblack into any type of water based medium due to the residual, unburned oil that is part of lampblack. I know, because I tried. I had great results with ivory black, which is a dry color consisting of burned ivory scraps. I mix 20% ivory black by weight to unthinned Timbermate, and then add a little water to get it to the right consistency.
I called Jeff Jewett about using his Trans-tint black to deepen the black of Timbermate. He was not enthusiastic about the process at all, because there is no guarantee the dye will stay in the Timbermate and not migrate to the surrounding wood.

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Is it Jeff's concern that the dye will migrate through a good vinyl sealer coat into the surrounding wood? I've got a guitar that's five months old with no issues whatsoever. I sprayed a good coat of vinyl sealer, let it dry overnight. Pore filled, let it dry a day or so, leveled, resealed with vinyl sealer to make sure I maintained a base with the same chatoyancy, and proceeded to spray my top coats.

Yes, that is his concern. The Transtint solvent evaporates and leaves behind a dye that remains soluble in a variety of solvents. Lacquers have a number of components in the dried film that are still more-or-less liquids, like phthalates for example. Since Transtint remains reactive, theoretically it could migrate from the Timbermate, to the vinyl sealer, and to the wood. It could be that, in practice, your technique is perfectly fine. Time will tell. I feel more confident in using a dry pigment like ivory black, which is inert and opaque.

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Well, the filler didn't go dark after spraying shellac as my filler..... Time to sand back, pull the filler out and use something else.

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Rod,

Maybe this is an option: Quick Drying Lacquer Based grain filler from “Hood Finishing Products”. It's a filler and sealer, spray or brush, dries in 10 - 15 minutes so can re-coat in 1 hour, tintable, and can be top coated with most lacquers, vinyl sealers, Magna-Shield®, conversion varnishes, and most water-based finishes including latex paints. It's available in quarts or gallons.

Here is some info: http://www.hoodfinishing.com/2011-Catalog/Grain-Fillers.pdf

And here is a discussion and input from one guy who has used it successfully: http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1826

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I should add that I used it with a catalyzed vinyl sealer.

Another question I have for Jeff Jewitt is why if the TransTint is ok to use in lacquer for color coats why is he concerned with it in filler?

Perhaps another solution is Mixol tints, which are pigments and not dyes. -- db

I am sure it has to do with the amounts in each application. A few drops will tint lacquer, whereas I was having to add at least 10% and more by weight to get Timbermate black. Transtint is a dye and not a pigment. What we are after in getting Timbermate a true black (rather than the ugly gray it actually is) is opacity and deepness of color. Kremer Pigments has ivory black. It seems expensive at first look, but if you start with 10 grams of Timbermate, add 2 grams of ivory black, and a little water, you should have enough filler for 2 guitar bodies.

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Plus, the object of tinting lacquer is because you want to change the color of the wood. Not so with pore filler.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

I've tried Timbermate and did some tests ages ago, which seemed OK, but I've not used the stuff on a guitar yet. I heard a report (can't remember where) that if you power sand with a random orbital the filler has a tendency to shake out of the pores. Has anyone had this problem?

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