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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:00 am 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:46 am
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I'll try to contribute something as I've tested tops for many years now.
Here are some photos of my test fixture. This fixture isolates each axis as it spans the entire length/width of the top giving me a sperate number for each axis.
I test unjoined tops around .150-.160 and I use this primarily as a sorting guide. I look at youngs modulus in each axis and the ratio between the two. I also look at the desity of the wood and it's relationship to it stiffness. Stiffness tracks density rather nicely BTW, of course there are exceptions to that. I use standard engineering formulas to find the modulus of each axis. Here's a link to a good paper on wood testing by Charles Wood a violin maker that really got me thinking about this years ago. http://www.scavm.com/Woods.htm
He has all the formulas written out in the paper so you can get them there, it's easier than me retyping them and it's a good paper.
I've also attached a PDF of my spread sheet which shows the things I'm tracking if that helps anyone.
I also deflect my braced tops in multiple locations and track that also, the last 2 photos show that.
I don't know how coherent this is, but I hope it helps some.

Attachment:
test jig 4.jpg


Attachment:
test jig 2.jpg


Attachment:
test jig 3.jpg


Attachment:
test jig 1.jpg


Attachment:
top deflection sample.pdf


Attachment:
tapping-frame-2.jpg


Attachment:
top-dial-indicator-jig-2.jpg


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:21 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
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First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
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Jim,
Excellent information. Thank you!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:33 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:50 pm
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Last Name: Abercrombie
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Jim-
Thanks!
Very slick (and compact) testing jig.

Q: You measure the deflection on raw wood samples from the top, just beside the 'beam' that applies the load? (rather than underneath, below the applied load...)

Q: Measuring deflection on tops and complete guitars- what is/where is the applied load?

Cheers
John


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:56 am 
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John, Yes I measure right next to the beam, same place every time.
Oh, I didn't mention it but I set a weight up on that platfrom also.
As ar as deflecting my braced tops normally I just push on it as I'm working the braces, you'd be amazed how repeatable a thumb push can be. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. I'm not making calculations from it mind, just more of a tactile thing. When I think I'm done I set a weight next to the indicator and take a reading using the weight. I actually like using the thumb push.
I also analyse the taps at various stages using Audacity.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:24 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:07 pm
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JohnAbercrombie wrote:
tlguitars wrote:
I'll do my deflection testing and density calculations and I'll also record the tap tone and check the resonance of whatever tone it's giving (FFT analysis on my computer).


Todd-
Thanks for that info.
When you record the tap tone and do the analysis (FFT), what data are you getting? Just the main resonance frequency (or frequencies) or other info about relative amplitudes, etc. ??
What software do you use?

Cheers
John


To John's questions I'll add:

What software are you using to do the FFT?

What size FFT do you use?

Are you also measuring "standard Q" with the FFTs in addition to "your calculated Q."

John


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